@bsbg

I can understand your thoughts and I also think it’s a shame that Swisscom isn’t making faster progress with the modernization of its prepaid platform, but what is a “carrot autumn”?

…we öppis take place in Rüebliherbscht (or we d Bohnestange blüeie)😂

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@user109 wrote:

@fmueller FYI in case you didn’t notice @GuidoT is now @5018 a.D.

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Thanks @user109

I didn’t know that, but I’m happy that @5018 alias GuidoT is still active.

Actually, he would have been easily recognizable just by his new nickname -)-)-)

Well, if you only know me from the mobile side 😉

The migration of the prepaid backend to the newer platform now seems to be working. See Swisscom News from January 27, 2021: “All existing customers will be migrated to the new offer within one month and will therefore receive more service for the same price. Customers do not have to do anything and will be informed via SMS after the migration is completed. Prepaid customers are also new Functions such as eSIM, VoLTE and WIFI calling are also available.” [swisscom.ch/de/about/news/2021/01/27-neue-5-franken-flat.html#ms-multipageStep-newsletter](https://www.swisscom.ch/de/about/news/ 2021/01/27-neue-5-franken-flat.html#ms-multipageStep-newsletter)

The month is over, but a text message hasn’t come yet. If you activate the new 5-franc tariff in the cockpit, individual numbers are successfully migrated, but usually a message appears that there may be delays in connection due to technical restrictions. Hope dies last.

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@bsbg wrote:

Hope dies last.

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The long overdue move to rein in the prepaid mobile customer database (HLR) will be a similar fiasco for Swisscom as the shutdown of 2G/GSM:

[https://community.swisscom.ch/t5/Mobile/Callfilter-f%C3%BCr-Mobiltelefone-gegen-unerw%C3%BCnschte-Werberufe/m-p/517926#M4011] (https://community.swisscom.ch/t5/Mobile/Callfilter-f%C3%BCr-Mobiltelefone-gegen-unerw%C3%BCnschte-Werberufe/m-p/517926#M4011)

[https://community.swisscom.ch/t5/Mobile/Wie-lange-noch-2G/td-p/649082](https://community.swisscom.ch/t5/Mobile/Wie-lange-noch- 2G/td-p/649082)

https://community.upc.ch/d/14308-no-calls-construction-receiving

Maybe something else will come in 2021. The realistic date for these “Herculean tasks” is probably 2022…

@GrandDixence

I’ve been wanting to get in touch about this topic for probably a year now, and since I’m only hoping for a meaningful answer from you, I’ll leave it to a separate thread (and it doesn’t fit the title that badly).

I’m not affected myself because, as you can read a few pages earlier, I can fortunately make phone calls in the SC network via VoLTE with my Essential - even if SC/Wingo claims otherwise; And of course I was still happy to take the voucher, which was valid for the entire Digitec range for two years, definitely! :grin_smile:")

So, according to Swisscom, 2G has been dead since the beginning of the year… and now I can see from the UPC thread you linked that exactly what I feared is happening (of course anyone can claim in retrospect, of course, but that’s how it is) 😕

SC has always presented it as if the shutdown was a long overdue step that only affected Stone Age phones like the Nokia 6110 (and the 3310 new edition was pretty much the only device where the topic even came up).

But since there is no 3G Voice (or at least I couldn’t find any information about it), the shutdown actually affects a whole range of other devices that are still in use from the last 10 years, starting with the old fourth-hand iPhone 5S for the large to brand new flagships like a Sony Chinese people paying listing fees. Or to put it another way, and we’ve already mentioned this several times in the course of this thread: everything that is not available in the SC shop. And with a little bit of ill will, you could simply accuse Swisscom of tough calculations and claim that the 2G shutdown is simply a disguised sales promotion and market isolation measure for the benefit of your own shops 🤐

What I simply cannot understand and what makes my blood pressure rise is that, after landline telephony, the second well-established basic (and therefore also emergency) standard of care is now being allowed to die without necessity - and that without the propagated successor solution ( VoLTE) would have become a universal standard in more than half a decade of its existence. And with 5G it continues in exactly the same style - it only works with the Pixel 5/4a5G when Google has decided to put the SC on a certain list (which of course comes in handy). But that’s definitely a different topic…

All in all, it’s really a tragedy that limits customer choice and only further cements the smartphone duopoly. And what’s more: This may sound a bit polemical and doom-mongering, but as a civil protection officer, I’m glad that we at least still have a functioning digital radio network for emergencies in a time when the SC is having glitch after glitch and you still have one zealously proven networks shut down. Next up is VHF (Swisscom Broadcast), another bit of a squeeze 😑

PS: How does a VoLTE-capable device actually behave with data switched off? Can you use it to make calls, or does that also require an active data connection for the voice channel? And yes, there are use cases for it: We have an iPhone as a pick-and-switch because the business doesn’t allow anything else; However, data and WiFi are switched off so that you don’t have to constantly charge the bone. It’s not worth testing yourself; I still have GSM reception at the moment.

@Hli

Calling and texting via 3G also works perfectly.

There isn’t really anything more to say about it.

Just tested it myself with a museum-ready Nokia N8.

And since this was a really great cell phone 8-10 years ago with a Zeiss camera quality that was unattainable from other brands at the time, it really deserves its place in my personal device museum.

By the way, my sister still has the same cell phone in productive use and even with the offer of an iPhone 12 as a gift, she can’t be dissuaded from it - when her battery finally gives up, I’ll probably have to give her my own museum piece. .

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@Hli wrote:

But since there is no 3G Voice

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The 3GPP release supported by the cell phone indicates how modern a cell phone is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3GPP#Standards

For 3G/UMTS, the mobile phone and the mobile network must support 3GPP Release 99 or newer. For 4G/LTE, the mobile phone and mobile network must support at least 3GPP Release 8. For 5G, the mobile phone and mobile network must support at least 3GPP Release 15.

Already with 3GPP Release 99, voice telephony via “circuit switching” was specified in the 3G/UMTS mobile network. 3GPP Release 99 is already ancient. 3GPP Release 99 was released in 2000! For more information on the term “Circuit Switching” see:

https://community.swisscom.ch/t5/Mobile/VoLTE-Roaming/m-p/658021#M8749

[https://community.swisscom.ch/t5/Mobile/Handy-Empfang-im-Minergiehaus-besser/m-p/656772#M8713](https://community.swisscom.ch/t5/Mobile/Handy-Empfang- im-Minergiehaus-bad/m-p/656772#M8713)

Every commercially available 3G/UMTS-capable mobile phone supports voice telephony over the 3G/UMTS mobile network!

For voice telephony in Switzerland, the mobile phone must mandatorily support UMTS900 (3G/UMTS in the mobile frequency band 8 -> 900 MHz)!

https://community.swisscom.ch/t5/Mobile/Zermatt/m-p/651761

[https://community.swisscom.ch/t5/Mobile/2G-Abschaltung-2020-neue-weisse-Flecken-kein-Empfang/m-p/617825] (https://community.swisscom.ch/t5/Mobile/2G-Abschaltung-2020-neue-weisse-Flecken-kein-Empfang/m-p/617825)

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobilfunkfrequencies_in_der_Switzerland

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(…)

The emergency broadcasting system “IBBK-Radio” operated by “Swisscom Broadcast” has most likely been converted to DAB+ in the meantime. The public radio stations operated by SRG broadcast with very high transmission power thanks to public financial injections. So that radio reception from the public radio station in the civil defense cellar is possible with a battery-operated DAB+ radio even in crisis situations. Private radios have to make do with significantly lower transmission powers, which is clearly noticeable in indoor reception.

[https://www.bakom.admin.ch/bakom/de/home/frequencies-antennen/rundfunk.html](https://www.bakom.admin.ch/bakom/de/home/frequencies-antennen /rundfunk.html)

(…)

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“IBBK-Radio” can transmit with very high transmission power - but this is only activated when necessary.
That is why, under normal circumstances, you will have poor radio reception in many civil defense cellars.

See also: [https://www.vbs.admin.ch/de/aktuell/meldeen/wissenswerts.detail.news.html/vbs-internet/wissenswerts/2018/181113.html](https://www.vbs .admin.ch/de/aktuell/melden/wissenswerts.detail.news.html/vbs-internet/wissenswerts/2018/181113.html)

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IBBK radio

Emergency and disaster information is now distributed via FM and DAB+. However, serious events can result in the organization and infrastructure for disseminating information via radio failing. That’s why Switzerland has a system for informing the population in crisis situations, or IBBK Radio for short: Additional elements operated by the federal government supplement the infrastructure of the SRG radio stations. Transmitting stations throughout Switzerland are equipped with VHF emergency transmitters that have very high transmission power and are particularly protected. They will be put into operation when the normal broadcast infrastructure is no longer available. As an addition, mobile emergency transmitters can also be quickly set up. This allows the authorities to inform the population in emergencies via VHF.

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@speed85 wrote:

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That’s why, under normal circumstances, you will have poor radio reception in many civil defense cellars.

Please pick up a mobile DAB+ radio and test the radio reception “under normal circumstances” in the civil defense cellar. You will be amazed at how well DAB+ radio reception from DAB Layer 12C works through the thick concrete walls in German-speaking Switzerland! The wall penetration of DAB channel 12C is very good thanks to the very high transmission powers. These radio stations use very high transmission powers (ERP) of > 10,000 watts or, expressed in dBW: > 40 dBW!

https://www.dab-swiss.ch/html/programme.html

https://www.dab-swiss.ch/html/news_2017.html

\=> Post from March 28, 2017 and October 3, 2017

For comparison: mobile phone antennas usually have a maximum transmission power (ERP) of 40 watts (40,000 mW = 46 dBm).

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Aviation_Network

It is also helpful for DAB+ radio reception to use a lower radio frequency (DAB+ Layer 12C center frequency: 227,360 MHz). This leads to significantly lower free space attenuation than with mobile communications (> 700 MHz). Lower-frequency radio signals (< 300 MHz) can penetrate walls better than high-frequency radio signals (> 700 MHz).

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freiraumd%C3%A4mpfung

Radio frequencies < 700 MHz are not suitable for mobile communications. See chapter “Technical Basics” under:

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobilfunkfrequencies_in_der_Switzerland#Technical_Basic

and these posts:

[https://community.swisscom.ch/t5/Mobile/6G-MOBILFUNK-Wie-115-Gigabit-s-per-Funk-%C3%BCber-100-m-%C3%BCberwegen/m-p/630647#M8014 ] (https://community.swisscom.ch/t5/Mobile/6G-MOBILFUNK-Wie-115-Gigabit-s-per-Funk-%C3%BCber-100-m-%C3%BCberwegen/m-p/630647#M8014 )

[https://mobilecommunity.ch/wbb/index.php?thread/339-ausbaustand-5g-netz-bei-sunrise-ab-m%C3%A4rz-2019/&postID=2750#post2750] (https://mobilecommunity.ch/wbb/index.php?thread/339-ausbaustand-5g-netz-bei-sunrise-ab-m%C3%A4rz-2019/&postID=2750#post2750)

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@GrandDixence wrote:
Every commercially available 3G/UMTS-capable mobile phone supports voice telephony over the 3G/UMTS mobile network!

Oof, I really got into trouble there 😔 – ashes over my head, sorry and thank you for the patient, detailed and exciting explanations @GrandDixence!

You actually can’t find anything for the search term 3G Voice, but you can find a lot for UMTS Voice - I could have come up with that myself, yes I should have 😕

But it’s also interesting that the linked table with the 3GPP releases mentions crude things like Mission Critical Video over LTE, but does not mention the omnipresent VoLTE - which of course reinforces my view that this is not a real standard to which should be set.

And the whole point of the UPC Mobile thread you linked and other such incidents is that the coverage of UMTS and LTE cannot even begin to keep up with that of GSM?

I also noticed that Norway is already switching off 3G again, but 2G is still running there… so for now at least the manufacturers will not be able to avoid installing appropriate radio modules in their devices to ensure interoperability.

Regarding IBBK, this article was published shortly after your answer (I have to admit that I was not previously aware of the term or the protected radio transmitters): [https://www.watson.ch/!542349070](https://www. watson.ch/!542349070). Interestingly, there is nothing there about converting to DAB+, only the concrete note is there (which you object to). The thrust, however, is that it is difficult for the population to understand that “normal” VHF will be switched off in two years, but that they should still have an VHF receiver ready in case of an emergency.

Personally, however, I stick to my opinion when it comes to FM: DAB+ does not offer me any significant advantage as a listener. The quality of FM is good/clear (in contrast to MW), it has been expanded over the decades to include numerous useful functions such as traffic information, station identification/further text information, etc. and works in every (car) radio from the 60s to today. With well over 10 years (since the Beromünster shutdown; this was probably the first, only and last time that the 80+ generation was at the forefront of adopting a new technology) ongoing massive campaign (spots, DAB+ radio as a prize in every radio competition, subsidies to private radio stations, etc.) the population has now, for the first time, reached the point where at least a majority has a suitable receiver at home (they would have If we had seen the point of the new technology, this would have been the case much sooner). But the hundreds of thousands or millions of second and third-party devices are not being replaced, not to mention the vehicles (as far as I know, there is still no installation/function requirement). And so the claim here is probably not out of the blue that this forced step only contributes to the decline of the radio medium (or that the secondary devices are then simply used far into the foothills of the Alps to receive German stations, which then “get in” even better become). The difference to television (yes, I’m still mourning the shutdown of analogue and digital terrestrial broadcasting, but it’s not drastic for me) is that television (at least in our part of the world) represents an active act, and that’s what you accept certain “hurdles” (switching on the set-top box, opening the browser for Zattoo or an app, etc.) are accepted. An FM radio, on the other hand, you simply switch on and it blares away, or remains silent, and if you have to use your tablet or PC anyway, you can also switch to Spotify & Co. Be that as it may, this was all very far away from the original topic, and nothing can be changed about it…

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@Hli wrote:

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Interestingly, there is nothing there about converting to DAB+

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Yes, the federal administration apparently “overslept” the conversion of IBBK radio to DAB+.

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@Hli wrote:

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Yes, I’m still mourning the shutdown of analogue and digital terrestrial broadcasting

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The radiation exposure from DVB-T was enormous.

[https://mobilecommunity.ch/wbb/index.php?thread/318-leicht-ot-tsch%C3%BCss-dvb-t-in-der-schweiz/&postID=2473#post2473] (https://mobilecommunity.ch/wbb/index.php?thread/318-leicht-ot-tsch%C3%BCss-dvb-t-in-der-schweiz/&postID=2473#post2473)

Fortunately, DVB-T broadcasts have been stopped (almost) throughout Switzerland.

The future of electronic communication is “unicast” and no longer “broadcast”.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unicast

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadcast

In the current ALL-IP era, in-house supply should be implemented exclusively via IP networks: IPTV, Internet radio and VoIP telephony. So that the house installation is as future-proof and ISP-independent as possible. See also:

[https://community.upc.ch/d/5596-dns-server-nach-update-deaktiviert/10](https://community.upc.ch/d/5596-dns-server-nach-update- deactivated/10)

https://www.elektronik-kompendium.de/sites/kom/1307281.htm

[https://www.swisscom.ch/de/business/enterprise/themen/work-smart/all-ip.html](https://www.swisscom.ch/de/business/enterprise/themen/work- smart/all-ip.html)

The sound quality from Internet radio (via WLAN or Ethernet network cable) is usually better than the sound quality from terrestrial DAB+ (radio reception via terrestrial radio) or DAB+ Cable (radio reception via the television cable network). For more information about the sound quality of DAB+ see the article from August 5th, 2020, point 2 under:

https://www.dab-swiss.ch/html/news_2020.html

[https://www.upc.ch/de/ Fernsehenen/infos-zu-tv/dab-plus/](https://www.upc.ch/de/ Fernsehenen/infos-zu-tv/dab-plus /)

With “Advanced Calling” (aka VoLTE+VoWLAN), mobile communications is also moving towards ALL-IP. A good introduction to this (also note page 2!):

[https://community.swisscom.ch/t5/Mobile/Handy-Empfang-im-Minergiehaus-besser/m-p/569594](https://community.swisscom.ch/t5/Mobile/Handy-Empfang-im- Minergie house-bad/m-p/569594)

And in the future, some of the radio antennas relevant to our everyday life will move much higher up in the sky, namely on LEO satellites. Thanks to Internet access via LEO satellites.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satellitenorbit#Low_Earth_Orbit_(LEO)

“Starlink” is an example of “Internet access via LEO satellites”:

[https://www.heise.de/news/Starlink-brings-Internet-ins-Wohnmobil-5075185.html](https://www.heise.de/news/Starlink-brings-Internet-ins-Wohnmobil- 5075185.html)

[https://www.heise.de/background/Starlink-Satelliten-bring-latenzarmes-Internet-ins-Nirgendwo-4886746.html](https://www.heise.de/background/Starlink-Satelliten-bring- low-latency-internet-to-nowhere-4886746.html)

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink

Maybe at some point a provider will come up with the clever idea of ​​offering mobile communications in the L or S band with a standard mobile phone using a global LEO satellite system. To do this, Swisscom then only needs to sign a corresponding roaming agreement with this LEO satellite-based mobile phone provider. Since the bankruptcy of Iridium Inc. in 2000, Swisscom has not had a valid roaming agreement with a LEO satellite network operator.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequenzband#Microwaverange

[https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iridium\_(communication system)](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iridium_(communication system))

This would be interesting for all regions that are not covered by terrestrial mobile communications. Until then, we will continue to have to make do with satellite phone, PLB, SPOT and “Iridium SBD” based products for portable applications in these “dead spots”.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notruf#Notruf_per_Satellitenkommunikation

"I think it’s a shame that SC doesn’t want to activate the WiFi calling function abroad for inOne subscriptions (Reason apparently due to quality reasons), although this was intended when it was introduced in 2015 and was communicated as such (see Press release at the time [Better reception quality in buildings with WiFi calling] from August 27, 2015:

"WiFi calling is now possible in Switzerland and Liechtenstein and at a later date also in other countries. “We are planning to launch it over the next year,” says Marc Werner, Head of Private Customers. “Then customers can also do so abroad Benefit from better cell phone reception in buildings.”

Apparently it works for the SC competitor, so the quality is there. Even if there would be a loss of quality according to SC’s fears, SC should make this available to customers and let them decide whether they want to use the offer or not….."

I refer again to my post 1182 from April 18, 2020:

Unfortunately, the SC continues to steadfastly refuse to offer WiFi calling to its customers outside of Switzerland. Especially there (e.g. Germany) cell phone coverage outside of big cities is often not optimal and WiFI calling technology would allow a cell phone call to still be made properly if you are in a WLAN.

If the SC has “quality concerns”, as it has always alleged since then, it should offer the service to its customers and let them decide for themselves whether the customers want it or not. As I said, this has been working perfectly for the competitors for years…

Dear SC, allow WiFI calling abroad at least with the subsidiary Wingo, so that customers could choose a provider of this service in the same “house” without having to switch to competitors…

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@SC_Kunde wrote:

"I think it’s a shame that SC doesn’t want to activate the WiFi calling function abroad for inOne subscriptions

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It’s logical that Swisscom doesn’t want to slaughter the golden cow called “roaming”.

Remedy: Create a VPN tunnel between your mobile device and your home and make calls at Swiss rates. A public, Swiss IPv4 address is required for WiFi calling. You get this IPv4 address abroad if you implement a VPN tunnel with a VPN endpoint in Switzerland.

As far as I can remember, the statement was that if a handover from WiFi calling abroad to the roaming network happened, it would either cost money or be canceled. The experience for the customer would not be there. However. I had WiFi calling briefly during a test run in 2016 when I was in the USA. It was active for a short time back then.

Unfortunately, I was never able to get WiFi calling over VPN to work. Neither with OpenVPN nor with Wireguard.

@GrandDixence wrote:

It’s logical that Swisscom doesn’t want to slaughter the golden cow called “roaming”.

A rogue who thinks of something like that. But the thought has already occurred to me :-)).

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@Cruncher wrote:

Unfortunately, I was never able to get WiFi calling over VPN to work. Neither with OpenVPN nor with Wireguard.

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The mobile device must be able to establish a VPN tunnel to the IMS. To do this, external access (no port forwarding!) to UDP port 500 and UDP port 4500 must be permitted in the home network. See:

Post #1064:

[https://community.swisscom.ch/t5/Mobile/Advanced-Calling-VoLTE-und-WiFi-Calling/m-p/533122/highlight/true#M46631] (https://community.swisscom.ch/t5/Mobile/Advanced-Calling-VoLTE-und-WiFi-Calling/m-p/533122/highlight/true#M46631)

Also pay attention to page 2!

[https://community.swisscom.ch/t5/Mobile/Handy-Empfang-im-Minergiehaus-besser/td-p/569594](https://community.swisscom.ch/t5/Mobile/Handy-Empfang- im-Minergiehaus-bad/td-p/569594)

For optimal performance, a TCP-based VPN tunnel solution must not be used for the VPN tunnel between the mobile device and the home network. So configure OpenVPN and Wireguard to use UDP if these VPN tunnel solutions enable UDP-based VPN tunnels.

[https://openvpn.net/faq/why-does-openvpn-use-udp-and-tcp/](https://openvpn.net/faq/why-does-openvpn-use-udp-and-tcp /)

https://www.wireguard.com/known-limitations/

Alternatively, the VPN tunnel can also be implemented with the “professional solution” IKEv2/IPSec. The VPN tunnel between the mobile device and IMS is also a VPN tunnel with IKEv2/IPSec.

[https://www.lancom-forum.de/lancom-feature-wuensche-f22/wireguard-t18159.html#p103229](https://www.lancom-forum.de/lancom-feature-wuensche-f22/ wireguard-t18159.html#p103229)