When will XGS-PON (G.fast) be available throughout Switzerland?

Hello

I’ll start off (no guarantee of accuracy):

As of today:

FTTS, FTTB -> G.fast

Status 202x:

_FTTB -> NG.almost to the box~ (Edit: Nothing will come of this, luckily)

FTTB -> XGS-PON (glass with splinter) to the box

As of 20xx:

FTTH -> Glass directly to the box

Please correct me if my thoughts are incorrect.

Greeting

Alitai

Of course, forecasts are extremely difficult, especially when they concern the future.

(depending on the source: quote from Mark Twain, Winston Churchill or Kurt Tucholsky)

In the meantime, with additional individual interpretations, what can currently be identified as trends from the generally publicly available coffee grounds:

• g.Fast will probably increasingly only be classified as a transitional technology, because the current g.Fast used at up to 106 MHz is already very fragile in practice in terms of its susceptibility to interference from individual house connections, which in the worst case can then affect the entire mCAN and thus can have a negative impact on all connections in an entire residential area.
  The copper tuning up to 500 Mbit/sec download, which is now being used in the first expansion stage, is already bringing many local installations to the limit of the physical performance of the old copper cables.
  A further increase in the performance pressure on the old copper cables to 212 or even over 500 MHz would only lead many old local installations to an acute crosstalk behavior chaos of the bell wires in the riser pipes, which are largely parallel and unshielded and completely overwhelmed.
  At many locations, the mutual interference between the individual connections would simply be too strong and the immediate consequence of this would be subsequent compulsory stabilization measures to combat the interference at a lower speed level

• FTTH, ideally combined with a multi-provider model, is certainly the best solution for us users of the infrastructure, but unfortunately it is also the most expensive solution and without public subsidies or subsidies, no private or semi-public ISP will probably build it voluntarily anymore.
  This means that FTTH is currently primarily a political question, namely whether we as a Swiss economy should and want to afford it in the interests of the best possible basic infrastructure.
  At the moment, however, things are looking rather bad politically for peer-to-peer FTTH, because the subsidies for the partial overproduction in agriculture are still more important for parliament than possible government support for the expansion of a long-term stable and future-proof system broadband network.
  The big cities have already built their FTTH networks (not least under the label of economic location development) and the rest of Switzerland is now actually just left to its own devices and presumably as a supplicant dependent on a conscious decision to invest in the general national wealth

• XGS-PON, on the other hand, has a good chance of becoming Swisscom’s future optional additional fiber standard offering for homeowners of existing developments

My assessment of the reasons for the currently assumed pool position of XGS-PON within Swisscom’s further network expansion strategy:

• This technology still has a lot of potential in terms of optical symmetrical transmission performance, is considered to be technically less susceptible to interference (similar to FTTH) and is also very energy-saving compared to g.Fast (passive optical splitting instead of active signal conversion using processors

• The optical splitters required for this can be installed at the same locations as the currently installed mCANs and will also allow parallel operation with the g.Fast connections

• In contrast to FTTH, the offer of XGS-PON to end customers can be optional and the costs of in-house fiber cabling can possibly be charged to the homeowners in a “user-pays” manner. If you don’t want to pay, you might just be stuck with the old copper cable with g.Fast as the last expansion stage before switching to fiber Anschluss.

• The necessary expansion work to create the conditions for the decentralized use of XGS-PON technologies (e.g. in the individual local exchanges) is currently being planned or is already underway

I don’t dare estimate at what point we might even start to forego the intermediate level g.Fast for further network expansions, because once the technical requirements for network-wide XGS-PON are in place, Swisscom itself actually has no interest at all more about installing more new g.Fast mCAN. At least for new developments, the copper cable will no longer be an issue.

In the case of existing buildings, however, one of the prerequisites for the final replacement of the last few meters of copper cable is certainly an additional mutually agreed cost arrangement for paying for the local in-house fiber installation that will then be required.

A possible financing model for this probably still needs to be defined.

ng.fast = not an issue

---

@Anonymous wrote:

ng.fast = not an issue

---

@Anonymous

And what exactly does the technical roadmap look like in the long term for customers who were not able to benefit from the FTTH expansion?

They are benefiting now or soon from the FTTS/B expansion.

And I prefer to discuss everything else with our group management and the Verwaltungsrat first. And then we’ll look further.

@mabu1

Surely something is happening there, but how long and rocky the road still is… I have no idea.

First of all, the local exchanges have to be retrofitted for XPON technology, then XGS.PON will probably be used directly instead of g.Fast for further new FTTB connections and at some point later, when you also discuss any cost sharing with the owners of the properties of additional in-house fiber optics, existing FTTS/FTTB installations may then also be equipped with additional passive optical fibers in parallel with g.Fast Equipped with splinters.

Since I’m not an insider, I only see the clear trends, but I don’t know any scheduling.

Of course, it could well be that the new FTTB connections will be equipped with optical splitters as early as 2020. Personally, however, I think that Swisscom certainly ensured that the control centers were prepared as well as possible for XGS-PON in 2019/2018. Actually a good thing, personally I would be looking forward to an XGS-PON expansion, although TWDM-PON or NG-PON2 would of course have been even better. With TWDM-PON the colors are P2P (if I understood that correctly…).

mabu1

There is definitely something going on with XGS-PON. Take a look at the new BBCS profiles %2001.12.2019).pdf) to:

[https://www.swisscom.ch/de/business/wholesale/angebot/anschluesse/BBCS/AktuelleVertragsmodelle.html](https://www.swisscom.ch/de/business/wholesale/angebot/anschluesse/BBCS/ Current contract documents.html)

So, clear statement from the SC:
Contrary to Cablex’s statement that all FTTB locations will be converted to A bit sobering…

https://twitter.com/GuidoTranel/status/1194997734639644672

Fantastic, express train Swisscom: Delay as long as possible: In the case of Grindelwald, FTTS will be built between December 20 and March 21, so that “Yay” (according to the Swisscom email) I can then benefit from .0475/.110.

And there, thanks to the former CEO, FTTH (with four threads, division 1xSwisscom, 1xStromwerk, 2xPrivat) was expanded until around 2012 and therefore there is also competitive pressure: from March 20 onwards up to 10Gbit. Well understood, at the same price for which the little mountain farmer receives a 1/20 performance…

Parliament must finally speak plainly: either it wants dividend income and accepts loss of access. Or a clearly defined supply mandate is mandated, which then comes at the expense of returns. But putting Swisscom in this half-way house, in which it has to deliver returns and at the same time have to drive “propaganda” (Swissness, for the mountain area and other BS), that only leads to the medium to long-term undermining of the brand and to one Companies whose prices suggest price/performance (including service) leadership, but the adaptation to changing technologies only takes place in three steps. Conversely, this also means that at the end of this (dead-end) alley there is a head-on collision with the wall: Parliament - especially the left-green side and the representatives of the peripheral areas - are mandating a supply that will then finally lame Swisscom can no longer be fulfilled within the legally prescribed time frame.

So you have it in plain language: basic service from 2020: 10mbit. You also have too good ones. All regulation of fiber optic connections were removed from the FMG revision at the insistence of Swisscom (all other forms of telco were in favor - even the cablers). And, the Federal Council expects a stable dividend and does not interfere in the business.

What you shouldn’t forget: many FTTH projects came about because the population was willing to spend money to build their own FTTH network. It wasn’t a social aspect of Schloter’s, it was about business. If you, as the market leader, offer a maximum of 50mbit while the urban EW offers gigabit, you are not making a good trap. And EW is also a purely Swiss company and in many places is 100% owned by the city (in contrast, anyone can buy Swisscom shares).

Where the cablers offer gigabit (and if they continue there will be more at some point) Swisscom will also have to follow suit (=> expansion from FTTS to P2MP FTTH), and where there is no competition, you are just at the whim of Swisscom. That may be unfair, but Parliament doesn’t want more competition at all - the dividend is a nice, regular source of money, without which you would suddenly have to save money or increase taxes, and politicians fear that like the devil fears holy water. So as a fiber underserved you only have 2 options: 1: move to the fiber area. 2: start your own FTTH expansion project in the community (and suddenly you will become more interesting for Swisscom 😏)

Even the new parliament will hardly interfere with Swisscom: the strengthened left thinks it’s great to have a “federal company” that is so strong. Competition would mean less government and that is the devil.

Hello Doom2

I can only agree with your argument in general and I don’t expect that companies are run by saints and that politicians are knowledgeable in all matters. I get what I want from both “subito, subito”. Super-high-speed Internet is not one of them, because it is not necessary or not absolutely necessary for carrying out my personal political or economic activities.

What I can expect or hope for, however, is argumentative handling, not agi-prop. This includes, for example, that Swisscom does not try to convince me, directly or subtly, that we should be grateful to them for their behavior - which seems rational under the circumstances, but far from Pareto. Well, what do you actually want? We are investing billions in the infrastructure and you have to be grateful to us for that. I don’t have to because the company only does exactly what it has to do under the given circumstances, political mandate, shareholders etc etc.

And also not constantly such marketing cleverness as “up to 10Gbit” speed on a PK, where the box presented at the same time “only” has 2.5Gbit connections. This in turn is a rational decision, as such a 10Gbit interface costs several times as much and rolling out one to “all” households would simply be neither economically appropriate nor optimal in terms of environmental policy (power consumption).

It would have been honest - and appropriate in the sense of long-term brand value preservation - to communicate accordingly: to those customers to whom such a service (or approx. 8 net) can technically be delivered in the coming months and years, and to them If you also want such a line, whether this is for economic reasons or just FOMO, these customers will either have to use their own modems at a later date or switch to special Swisscom hardware (IBX with 10Gbit interface) or purchase it additionally.

Illusory? Yes. Expensive to communicate like that? Yes, it takes longer. It takes several attempts so that the message gets across correctly etc etc etc. But maybe it’s the right thing in the medium to long term.

PS Even if this year’s management bonus is minimally reduced. You could, for example, The margin can be maintained if you limit Agi-Prop spending, reduce public affairs to keep politicians warm and use investor relations efforts more specifically. That would be a little more Pareto.

And yes: I allow myself to still dream… even if sometimes waking up is a little more difficult and unfortunately I still have a tendency to verbally express myself. Man/woman forgive me… don’t!!

@Smallpot: I’m by no means a Swisscom fan (see digi-tv community..), but the Agi-Prop has its effect. Many people still have it in their minds that Swisscom is the most Swiss, the most customer-friendly and the most likeable telco company. In many places you hardly even look at the price tag, and you can confidently describe large areas of land as “Swisscom Land”. Swisscom is doing something right. Whether that’s the propaganda - I don’t know. But the fact is, other providers are having a damn hard time, even if they have a good network, offer good service and are even cheaper (and sometimes massively cheaper). Many people don’t even know that their hyped “fiber optic network” is a pimped copper cable - if you don’t understand technology, you can fall for it. Swisscom is just doing the minimum to remain competitive (the cable companies often offer gigabit across the board, Swisscom has to build that for another 2 years in order to be able to offer just under 100mbit everywhere - and the last 10-20% remain underserved and can only hope for 5G, although Swisscom is currently not building 5G wide and thus the fast 5G).

Of course, 10Gbit is primarily marketing, but Salt is aggressively pushing their 10Gbit (and at a competitive price) - as the market leader, Swisscom has to react at some point. Think back to the start of the FTTH expansion. The cities rushed ahead, and in order to remain competitive, Swisscom then entered into collaborations. With the result that the market shares have not changed significantly. So here too: everything was actually done right (from the point of view of Swisscom, from the point of view of the shareholder, from the point of view of the majority owner). 10Gbit WAN interface with 2.5Gbit LAN, that’s actually a bit strange, but the explanation here in the forum is entirely plausible: affordable 10Gbit hardware is unfortunately still rare, and chipsets that also cover DSL (which doesn’t have to be designed for fiber speed) and somehow I can understand that Swisscom wants 1 router model instead of 2 (cost reasons). And I bet in the not too distant future you will be able to buy the Internet Box 3 Plus with a 10GBit LAN port. Do you think most customers notice the difference to the 10Gbit capable Salt Fiber Box? Look how many people measure the speed via WLAN and complain.

The new hardware isn’t available for free (except for new customers) - existing customers pay something (whether that covers the costs remains to be seen). But you get a device that is probably future-proof (the next expansion stage of FTTS is also XGS-PON) with the latest WiFi standard. If you don’t get it from UPC, you won’t get it from Quickline, you won’t get it from Sunrise - as far as I know, the IB3 is the first WiFi 6 “forced” router. Sounds good - especially if you’re at home in the Swisscom world. And confirms that you are with the right provider 😉 (some will think…)

Unfortunately, you can’t hope for medium/long-term considerations. As a listed company, Swisscom thinks in quarters. The shift from the long-term FTTH strategy to short-term FTTS shows this very well. With FTTS you travel the road twice, once from the central office to the manhole, and then the last 100-400m into the house. The mCANs aren’t free either, but it allows you to move along with the cables more quickly and in the short term it’s cheaper to continue to operate the copper cable that has long since been amortized 😉

I know I come across as a bit cynical, but that’s how it is. As a company, Swisscom is not obliged to Switzerland but rather to its owners. They like to sell themselves differently, but that’s pure marketing. And marketing that is still very well received by many people. The market share comes from somewhere - in all other countries the market is much more evenly distributed.

One could probably write economic theory books about the competitive conditions in the Swiss telecommunications market. Despite very high prices and comparatively few new customer promotions, Swisscom can apparently prevail against competitors with significantly lower net prices. It’s like in construction: the gross offer or Gross prices (or “official price”) are not worth much in cutthroat competition, since depending on the dealer or installer (e.g. “promotion”) you can buy the same product for 50% or less from the same supplier (example Zehnder Lüftung & Heiz, SevenAir etc… Homeland security par excellence…). However, Swisscom can still offer very high gross prices and customers are still increasing. The question now arises as to why Incument can resist this discount and promotion battle and better decouple itself from consumers’ increased price sensitivity. A whole list of factors can be noted here:

• very good TV product where a lot of money is invested in further development (Swisscom Box: 100 people, 1 year of development, estimated costs > 10 million?)
• closed ecosystem with lock-in effect:
  • Internet Box 3 as a smart home control center
  • WLAN box at an attractive price
  • Swisscom (TV) box with voice assistant.
  • Internet-Booster (used by over 20,000 customers)
• Double Ended Milking: The customer pays high subscription fees and Swisscom diligently collects and markets customer data on the entire device fleet of the closed ecosystem using the opt-out procedure. I would be interested to know what data Swisscom collects, (presumably) also diligently on all the Internet and WLAN sockets directly in their own customers’ home networks. I lack transparency here. Now with smart home integration, the gates to the big data paradise are only being opened. I hope the GDPR will finally be implemented in Switzerland and Swisscom will be brought to its senses. Pretty cheeky for an incumbent and state-affiliated company.
• Although customers’ price sensitivity has increased, Swisscom offers slightly better offers, but always exactly at the upper limit of what is still feasible.
• The Swiss’ laziness to change: Starts with the health insurance company and ends with the telecom provider.
• Bundle offers InOne with a little something for combining mobile and landline networks.
• Discount battle for SME and enterprise customers. It’s pretty laughable what SMEs pay for the same mobile subscription compared to normal private customers. There is real competition here and there is a lot of sales at stake.
• The myth of “Swiss quality” and a Swiss company is often kept alive with image films. The recent total failures of recent years, particularly in fixed-line telephony and fixed-line Internet, are evidence of something different. Swisscom is not even able to maintain emergency call services. ([https://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/zuerich/stadt/notruf-117-ist-in-der-stadt-zuerich-nicht-erreichbar-schon-wieder/story/13031586] (https://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/zuerich/stadt/notruf-117-ist-in-der-stadt-zuerich-nicht-erreichbar-schon-wieder/story/13031586)).

What Swisscom does well, however:

• Pragmatic investment in G.fast/FTTS and In order to get into the area as quickly as possible, Swisscom chose the right technology with G.fast. The future networks will be hybrid, consisting of FTTH, FTTS, FTTB and fixed wireless. Burying fiber optics everywhere makes no sense. would have to be subsidized by the state.
• Simple and easy solutions: When I compare the IB3 and the WLAN boxes with other routers, the range of functions of the IB’s is pretty poor in comparison. However, the devices are easy to configure and work well together. They are built for 75% of users and not 25% of prosumers.
• Very good TV product.