KMU 10Gbit IB3 / Centro Business 2

    • Hello everyone

    I would like to give you an experience report about how I feel slightly ripped off by Swisscom.

    On the following [Link](https://www.swisscom.ch/de/business/kmu/internet-festnetz- Fernsehen/internet.html) 10GBit is offered for SMEs. Of course I ordered the upgrade with great joy and I received the IB3.

    After 12 hours, the IB3 finally gets an internet signal and connects, but no connection to the internet is possible (the IB3 doesn’t get an IP and therefore no connection). It should be noted here that we have rented a static IP subnet.

    After a bit of back and forth with support, I received a new Centro Business 2 with an XPS-PON module. The box was put into operation, but since all ports on the Centro Business 2 can only handle 1Gbit, the 10Gbit is of course no good.

    After further back and forth with support, the following emerges:

    - 10GBit only works with IB3, but IB3 does not support static IPs

    - Centro Business 2 cannot do 10GBit, but supports static IPs

    Now I’m wondering why 10Gbit is even being advertised for SMEs if this is not even possible once you use static IPs - an official additional product. I was also told by support that there are currently no new business routers planned that support 10GBit + static IPs.

    I have to say that I’m a bit disappointed with Swisscom for launching a half-hearted product for SME customers that doesn’t deliver what it promises.

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    • Thomas_K, Jekulo90, Sennhauser-ITS, and 2 others like that.

    • @Mareo wrote:

      Hi Hammond

      Maybe I’m misunderstanding something, but:

      The IB3 may support 10 GBIT on the WAN side, but only has a 2.5 GBIT LAN port. If you set the router in bridge mode (well DMZ), then you would still need a 10 GBIT switch at the back anyway, which would then take care of the static addressing. So I don’t really understand your problem at the moment.

      LG
      Mareo

      A switch does not route, except to a limited extent with Layer 3 switches. In “Bridge Mode”, which is not available with the IB3, you need a router and firewall that is capable of 10 gigabit. The IB3 only has a DMZ mode, which actually corresponds to an exposed host. A static IPv4 subnet is of little use to you if you cannot provide it on port 1 via DMZ, for example, as with CB2.

    We have large AWS workloads that could certainly saturate 2 - 3 gigabit/s, so 5 - 10 Gbit/s at a good price would be very desirable.

    Did the CB2 even work with the XGS-PON module?

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    Hi Hammond

    Maybe I’m misunderstanding something, but:

    The IB3 may support 10 GBIT on the WAN side, but only has a 2.5 GBIT LAN port. If you set the router in bridge mode (well DMZ), then you would still need a 10 GBIT switch at the back anyway, which would then take care of the static addressing. So I don’t really understand your problem at the moment.

    LG
    Mareo

    Show original language (German)

    @Mareo wrote:

    Hi Hammond

    Maybe I’m misunderstanding something, but:

    The IB3 may support 10 GBIT on the WAN side, but only has a 2.5 GBIT LAN port. If you set the router in bridge mode (well DMZ), then you would still need a 10 GBIT switch at the back anyway, which would then take care of the static addressing. So I don’t really understand your problem at the moment.

    LG
    Mareo

    A switch does not route, except to a limited extent with Layer 3 switches. In “Bridge Mode”, which is not available with the IB3, you need a router and firewall that is capable of 10 gigabit. The IB3 only has a DMZ mode, which actually corresponds to an exposed host. A static IPv4 subnet is of little use to you if you cannot provide it on port 1 via DMZ, for example, as with CB2.

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    a month later

    Hello Hammond

    (and everyone else who is interested in the topic)

    I had a similar experience, only luckily I only played the whole thing through on the phone.

    1. Support call (short):

    • Me: Called support
    • Me: Would like to upgrade to 10 Gbps (Logical: same price, more performance)
    • Support: No problem will send you an upgrade kit
    • Me: In that case a new modem?
    • Support: No
    • Me: But the Centro Business 2.0 only has 4×1Gbps, with public IP and Internet failover, I can still only use a maximum of 1Gbps (single LAN port).
    • Support: Wait, I have to ask
      *…
    • Support: Yes, there is currently no solution, something should be available by the end of the month

    2. Support call July 23, 2020 (short):

    • Me: What does it look like 10 Gbps, SME, Pubilc-IP (situation briefly explained), when will there be a solution
    • Support: I have to ask………
    • Support: Something should come in about 3 weeks
    • Me: In that case a new modem?
    • Support: Yeah, something along the lines of “they’re testing something”

    Interim conclusion:

    Presumably due to pressure from other providers, 10 Gbps was overzealously offered and touted, even though it can’t be delivered (yet).

    2.5Gbps on the IB3

    I think the note about 2.5Gbps on the IB3 is great 😄

    However, I would like to put things into perspective a little with regard to private users:

    Very few private customers should really benefit from 10Gbps at the moment.

    However, the “2.5Gbps” on the IB3 is put into perspective when you consider the following:

    With all LAN ports (without WLAN) we get 6.5 Gbps if all connected devices use the maximum bandwidth.

    (Always assuming 10 Gbps is actually available on the WAN port.)

    Then everyone can use the full bandwidth of the respective LAN port without mutual bandwidth restrictions.

    Small example:

    1 × 2.5 Gbit/s for home office

    1× 1GBit for TV, game consoles etc.

    1× 1Gbit for the children’s rooms

    1× 1Gbit for the additional access point (e.g. on the upper floor)

    1× 1Gbit for all other network sockets in the house

    \= maximum utilization of 6.5 Gbps

    Then we still have some free capacity (3.5 Gbps) for the “theoretical data transmission” of the integrated WLAN:

    • 4.8 Gbps (5 GHz)
    • 860 Mbps (2.4 GHz)

    So according to “theory” we could actually make full use of the 10 Gbps.

    Regarding corporate networks:

    In company networks, especially when services are offered externally, the requirements are often completely different and you rely on the 10Gbps being able to be divided according to your own needs. Don’t forget the firewall in both cases: 10Gbps unblocking firewalls that also offer the desired security are not exactly cheap!

    My personal conclusion:

    The (corporate) customers who could really benefit from the bandwidth are currently not being served.

    This is why marketing is carried out and private customers are supplied with (for most) pointlessly high speeds.

    Last but not least, the speed test junkies 😄

    Everyone who has a 10Gbps LAN port on their PC and does a speed test calls Swisscom and complains that they only ever achieve a maximum of 2.5 Gbps, which is what that’s supposed to be 😉 the same may be the case with the 4.8 Gbit WLAN speed 😄

    Have a nice day everyone and be patient while waiting.

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    @POGO 1104

    You probably mean net 8 Gbit/s, not 8 Mbit/s.

    @Sennhauser-ITS

    Swisscom has been offering 10 giga-bit connections for corporate customers for several years. The only condition is that the company building is developed with GF. Depending on the case, GF even built the requirement for 10 gigs specially for Geschäftskunden.

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    @hed

    Like the thread creator, I’m talking about SMEs (not “enterprise customers”).

    But you’re right: Instead of talking about “corporate customers”, I could have spoken more explicitly about SMEs.

    The fact is:

    For private customers and SMEs, there is currently no device available that allows you to use more than 2.5 Gbit/S on a single Anschluss (see my last post above for perspective). SMEs with public IP addresses are so far not offered a solution that allows them to use more than 1Gbit/S (previous solution).

    My opinion:

    Of course, it’s not really a problem to wait another 2-3 weeks for a suitable solution. However, Swisscom currently has a (highly touted) offer that it cannot deliver under the given conditions (SMEs, public IP). This creates corresponding expectations that are currently not being met, which in turn leads to dissatisfaction among customers.

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    @Sennhauser-ITS

    As far as I know, Swisscom no longer differentiates between SMEs and enterprises, there are only RES and B2B customers. This means that every SME can order a 10 Gig GFA if it is available and the SME can and wants to afford it.

    Ultimately, the question also arises as to whether an SME needs a 10 gig line. I know a lot of enterprise customers with a few thousand employees who “only” have 1 × 1 Gig or, for redundancy reasons, a maximum of 2 × 1 Gig. have.

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    @hammond @Sennhauser-ITS at I-Way there is an SME 10 Gbit/s PON Anschluss with 10 Gbit/s port Ethernet - Anschluss.

    The Huawei router HN8255Ws is used

    or pre-order here for 290.- CHF: https://huawei-distribution.ch/produkt/huawei-echolife-hn8255ws/

    But Caution there is no guarantee whether it also works with fixed IP’s (subnets), whether this router has dual registration via PPOE

    has no idea.

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    @user109

    Thank you for the tip, iWay is certainly an interesting provider that is shaking up the provider business a little (in a positive sense).

    Unfortunately, I don’t know of any provider that offers a Internet-Backup via mobile communications like Swisscom (and certainly not under these conditions) and also covers public IP addresses. Of course, a maximum of 100/20 Mbit/S is no comparison to 1 or even 810 Gbit/S, but at least the services are still accessible.

    [edit 12:06]

    Regarding “Huawei Router HN8255Ws”

    Interesting note, according to your link it’s even “Swisscom certified”

    It might even be worth further clarification 😮

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    @hed

    I absolutely agree with you!

    For normal “office operation” 1Gbps is sufficient for many users.

    In my opinion, 10Gbps is very interesting (among others) in the following situations:

    Backup/Replication

    (be it as a service for customers or/and backups to other destinations)

    File hosting

    Data cloud or downloads of whatever kind, be it via NAS systems, own/Nextcloud,…

    Streaming Platforms

    Not everyone wants to put their (private/business/…) videos online on YouTube&Co.

    For example, with 1-10Gbps, an SME can host its own video platform inexpensively.

    (Apart from arguments that could speak for solutions such as CoLo/Hosting and other Coud solutions - but I think that would go beyond the scope of the discussion here 😉

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    @Sennhauser-ITS If you don’t want to do without such functions (mobile backup, public IP’s) and still want to use a 10 Gbit/s network, you can’t avoid load balancing with 2x WAN connections with 2 routers.

    A Mikrotik from the CCR series would then be the first choice.

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    @Sennhauser-ITS

    The trend is more in the direction of companies outsourcing the data and web services to the Azure or AWS cloud, for example, and no longer need such high bandwidths at the company locations themselves.

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    @hed

    For this reason my comment: “(Apart from arguments that could speak for solutions such as CoLo/Hosting and other Coud solutions - but I think that would go beyond the scope of the discussion here 😉 )”

    The trend is moving more and more towards the “cloud”, but there are still many customers who want it differently. (Especially when it comes to backup.)

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    @Sennhauser-ITS wrote:

    @hed

    For this reason my comment: “(Apart from arguments that could speak for solutions such as CoLo/Hosting and other Coud solutions - but I think that would go beyond the scope of the discussion here 😉 )”

    The trend is moving more and more towards the “cloud”, but there are still many customers who want it differently. (Especially when it comes to backup.)

    My Arbeitgeber, a medium-sized SME with 180 employees where I took over as CIO, backs up 5 TB of data on AWS Glacier Archive Tier every weekend. The data is transferred to the far north, archived in a tamper-proof manner, encrypted and the solution costs a spot price compared to an onsite tape library. We pay $0.99/TB/month in Archive Tier. The whole thing works via a VTL (Virtual Tape Library) and the AWS Storage Gateway. At $120/month, the Storage Gateway costs more than the backup data. At these prices, it is safer and more reliable to store a full backup in the cloud every week. This means we have an audit-proof copy of our data every week.

    So: Backup in the cloud is already worthwhile for companies today and they need a lot of bandwidth for this. You can easily back up with around 1 Gbit/s per virtual tape drive. Up to 8 parallel jobs are possible. The nice thing about this solution: The backup is fully automated and offline. A hacker would have to get your AWS logins. It is not enough to attack the backup servers. Once the virtual tape is ejected, it can only be accessed via the AWS console or SDK. This provides good protection against ransomware.

    What’s more: the solution was installed in just a few hours. Simply download and configure the Storage Gateway ESXi appliance. Then mount the virtual tape drives as iSCSI targets, configure Veeam and voila.

    [https://aws.amazon.com/de/storagegateway/vtl/?nc=sn&loc=2&dn=3](https://aws.amazon.com/de/storagegateway/vtl/?nc=sn&loc=2&dn= 3)

    And this is just one of the many applications of the infamous cloud.

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    @hed wrote:

    @Sennhauser-ITS

    The trend is more in the direction of companies outsourcing the data and web services to the Azure or AWS cloud, for example, and no longer need such high bandwidths at the company locations themselves.

    I think that the cloud will also come to the edge in the future. It doesn’t make sense to centralize all services somewhere in Frankfurt or Ireland and then be surprised by congested nodes and high latency times. Without a private link, I would not outsource any critical services to the cloud. In the future, a lot of data will be generated at the edge, at least in production companies. These have to get into the cloud somehow. Virtual desktop environments also require a lot of data rate with today’s 4K screens. For virtualized CAD workstations with 2 x UHD monitors, 50 - 100 Mbit/s can easily be achieved, even with compression champions like Citrix. Even more so with pure RDP. If the employee does not want to develop eye cancer, the compression simply has to be used very carefully and otherwise it is better to leave the VDI adventure behind.

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    13 days later

    Hello everyone

    “back to topic” and a little update from me:

    According to my phone call yesterday, there is currently no solution. “End of 2020 beginning of 2021” are the new prospects.

    The IB3 is apparently not (yet?) suitable for PublicIP & Internet backup.

    Unfortunately, as always, they are very tight-lipped about “use your own device” (so you have to test it at your own risk).

    If anyone would like to participate, I have opened a separate thread here for a solution search (10Gbps, Public-IP, Internet-Backup) with OPNsense:

    [OPNsense Router 10Gbps )

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    Hello everyone

    In 2021 there will be a new router for SMEs that supports 10GB in the WAN. In LAN there will be the following ports 4× 1GB + 1× 10GB + Wifi6.

    Today’s Centro Business 2.0 only supports 1GB on xgsPON.

    Furthermore, IB3 will never support fixed IP addresses in the future. A Centro Business is still necessary here.

    Greeting

    Stefano

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