Fiber optic connection in REFH settlement

    • Almost a year ago, glass was pulled into the technical rooms (marked in green) in our REFH settlement. Some neighbors got their Anschluss, some didn’t (marked in orange). This has always confused me because the checker has been saying for a long time “Your property was connected to fiber optics by Swisscom.” (Not true.) Today I see the following picture in the (new?) network information:

    andiroid_2-1699692750998.png

    Can someone tell me why only half of the work, i.e. not all parties, was prepared for development right away?

    At first I thought that some of the work had simply been forgotten. The requests from the network builder’s project manager and the responsible Cablex employee came to nothing with the referral to Swisscom. The network information shows me today that, with a certain systematic approach, the units accessible through the underground car parks/cable routes have not yet been developed.

    @Roger G: If you could shed some light and insider information on why the stage was chosen this way, I would be grateful. And the community might also be interested.

    Thanks everyone for any tips!

    Äs Greetings

    Android

    👽

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    • @andiroid

      Optical splitters are purely passive elements and do not require any power. When downloading, they do nothing other than forward the group signal arriving from a single fiber from the control center to up to 64 customer fibers, and when uploading they do up to 64 individually Incoming router uploads receive a common bundled light signal, which is then processed as a group signal in the control center.

      The whole thing happens in the optical splitter without any control logic, because either the light is simply forwarded unchanged during the download as a common signal to all connected routers, and each router then extracts its own share, or the individual router receives it during the upload the central control (not the optical splitter) each time slices via central control, during which it is authorized to send its own individual upload signal, because in a PON tree all participants constantly receive the complete group signal, but they are allowed to send Only one at a time, otherwise the individual upload signals on the optical splitter would add up to an incomprehensible optical “gibberish” for the pick-up point in the control center.

    @WalterB wrote:

    Until now I have always concentrated on this link and it has always worked, even for other users I know.

    That works very well for me too. Maybe inconsistent wasn’t so appropriate. The data is correct, the views on it are shown differently depending on access: The Checker shows the current availability. The Broadband Checker shows that we are connected and therefore the future/possible availability - at least from DSLAM to the Technical room. And the network information shows the individual transfer points (?). I think that the “cross-country” neighbors use (have to?) a slightly different technology than the rest of us, which are connected virtually “in-house” through the garage/basement. But you’re welcome to explain to me in more detail if I’m wrong. I’m very surprised by the technical background… Not about the checker, but about the fiber optic technology.

    🙂🙃

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    • WalterB has responded to this post.

      andiroid

      There are these fiber optic versions like the one in the picture below and in some versions the objection is still effective.

      Fiber optic versions.jpg

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      Installationen, Netzwerk, Internet, Computertechnik, OS Windows, Apple und Linux.

        Hi Andy

        The situation is simply explained: They didn’t build any further because everyone else was building with P2MP and in the future everything should be accessible using P2P. So it wouldn’t have made sense to continue if you had to pull in fibers again later anyway.

        They are all blocked there and no marketing is possible. Once the planning for the feeder migration has been completed there, the in-house planning will also be carried out so that everyone can then receive the OTO with 2 fibers to the headquarters. But I don’t see any data for the community yet. As soon as we have them, they will also be visible in the checker.

        Best regards

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        Roger G.
        Swisscom (Schweiz) AG, Product Manager Wireline Access

        @Roger G wrote:

        Hi Andy

        Thank you Roger for the explanations and for being able to spare me a few minutes of your time. 🎖️

        The situation is simply explained: They didn’t continue building because everyone else was building with P2MP and in the future everything should be accessible using P2P.

        I don’t fully understand that yet. The blue cable from the DSLAM to the technical room has 48 fibers. 4×11 parties and 4 reserve fibers. Is this a P2MP configuration? Or do you mean the P2MP at the feeder / up to the DSLAM? 😉

        They are also all blocked there, no marketing possible. Once the planning for the feeder migration has been completed there, the in-house planning will also be carried out so that everyone can then receive the OTO with 2 fibers to the headquarters.

        Okay, then you can confirm to me that this is the usual procedure and that nothing has been forgotten. But I’m glad no accident happened! 🙃🙂

        But I don’t see any data for the community yet. As soon as we have them, they will also be visible in the checker.

        Oh dear. Too bad. Patience is required on my part. I understand this to mean that the roosts (drops) are planned together with the feeder (supply into the roosts) and thus also scheduled. As soon as this happens, the updated data will appear in the checker. 🤔 I secretly expected it to be different. 😕

        Beautiful Aabig

        Android

        👽

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        @andiroid

        The problem is usually how many fibers can be spliced ​​directly at the feeder in order to be able to establish direct, continuous connections to the control center without using a decentralized optical splitter.

        Or to put it another way: The cabling from the BEP to the OTO socket and the drop cable from the BEP to the feeder alone are not enough, because you also have to be able to connect the P2P fibers of the drop cable to the feeder.

        Show original language (German)

        Hobby-Nerd ohne wirtschaftliche Abhängigkeiten zur Swisscom

        @Werner: Thanks for the additions. I always thought that the optical splitters would be placed as close as possible to the customer connections. But as I learned/understood, they can be placed anywhere. It may still need some power for active elements. And they are also available on the go…

        Show original language (German)

        @andiroid

        Optical splitters are purely passive elements and do not require any power. When downloading, they do nothing other than forward the group signal arriving from a single fiber from the control center to up to 64 customer fibers, and when uploading they do up to 64 individually Incoming router uploads receive a common bundled light signal, which is then processed as a group signal in the control center.

        The whole thing happens in the optical splitter without any control logic, because either the light is simply forwarded unchanged during the download as a common signal to all connected routers, and each router then extracts its own share, or the individual router receives it during the upload the central control (not the optical splitter) each time slices via central control, during which it is authorized to send its own individual upload signal, because in a PON tree all participants constantly receive the complete group signal, but they are allowed to send Only one at a time, otherwise the individual upload signals on the optical splitter would add up to an incomprehensible optical “gibberish” for the pick-up point in the control center.

        Show original language (German)

        Hobby-Nerd ohne wirtschaftliche Abhängigkeiten zur Swisscom

          @andiroid wrote:

          @Werner: Thanks for the additions. I always thought that the optical splitters would be placed as close as possible to the customer connections. But as I learned/understood, they can be placed anywhere. It may still need some power for active elements. And they are also available on the go…

          Yes, so far the splitters with P2MP could be placed anywhere so that the maximum 64 connections of a PON tree can be served. The closer to the customer, the lower the costs. But this is no longer the case with P2P, instead the splitters (e.g. 1:4:16) are located in the headquarters and at least 2 fibers then go directly to the customer = high construction costs. This is actually still P2MP, but you only look at the fiber distributor (OMDF) in the headquarters and so it is called P2P.

          You can’t see the splitters in the picture, nor the number of fibers, just a BEP and an OTO (although there are 2 per address). So it’s not worth much and is just intended as a simple overview.

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          Roger G.
          Swisscom (Schweiz) AG, Product Manager Wireline Access

          Werner

          Optical splitters are purely passive elements and do not require any power; they do nothing other than forward the group signal arriving from a single fiber from the control center to up to 64 customer fibers without any changes

          Absolutely right, I dug up a training picture to clarify.

          Splitter 1:16 for installation in a BEP (splice cassette) or in a FIST sleeve with appropriate brackets.

          The “supply line” is transparent; the cable from the 1:4 splitter is spliced ​​onto it.

          Above the splitter are guides/holders for the splices.

          Splitter.jpg

          And installed it looks like this in the BEP:
          Netcom AG - BEP Integration Splitter

          and in the sleeve like this:

          Netcom AG - Sleeve with splitter (between drop & feeder)

          Show original language (German)

          Ich bin ein als Privatkunde getarnter Swisscom-Mitarbeiter im Bereich Service Continuity.

            Thank you all, now we say almost everyone, for the constructive contributions. You all deserve a 🎖️.

            If you want, you can also pick up a 🧌, the others get a virtual drink on their well-deserved end of work: 🍺🥛🍷🥂

            It is now much clearer to me why the topic of P2P and P2MP is so controversially discussed.

            • Roughly speaking, the network operator has 64x more fibers in the feeder, which he has to provide and get into the ground.
            • The competitor would rather be able to offer its fiber with its optical technology.
            • The impatient customer is annoyed by the delay caused by the WEKO conflict.
            • The nerd might say to himself: In the worst case scenario, I will share the capacity of “my” fiber with 63 others. This isn’t quite as bad as the CATV coaxial cable networks of the past. But still a substantial loss of possible bandwidth. (We no longer need to discuss possible and maximum bandwidth here.)
            • My personal opinion: I remain annoyed, like so many people who have unused fiber in their basement. At the same time, I believe that P2P is the better solution in the long term. I can’t imagine that the network operator is willing to upgrade the existing P2MP connections.

            @StefanSch: Thanks for the pictures. I actually imagined the splitter to be a large, misshapen block with active optical amplification. Which doesn’t really correspond to the delicate fibers I’m actually familiar with. And I didn’t know that the thin cassettes are simply inserted into the sleeve and BEP.

            @Roger G: Thank you again for your comments and research. I really appreciate the info from the source. At the risk of repeating myself: make more of it. In my opinion, being so close to the customers/nerds is a unique selling point. Factors better than my old company, with external IT support from an Indian conglomerate that cannot be mentioned by name.

            @Everyone else: Thank you too for the contributions - I will reward the valuable ones with solution points for accounting.

            Goodnight

            -Andiroid

            👽

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              andiroid

              Bonus material 😉

              In the OMDF the splitters - here 1:4 and 1:2 - are a bit bulkier, but there are many in one heap.

              Green is in, blue is out.

              The following splitters (1:16 / 1:32) are then in a small format.

              Sometimes they are simply mounted on a bracket above the rack, one next to the other.

              The splinter fibers then follow the ceiling, guided cleanly and “split up” towards the customer.

              If the ones shown are “only” the 1:2 and 1:4 you can imagine the strands that were laid there…

              Splitter_1-2_1-4.jpg

              Show original language (German)

              Ich bin ein als Privatkunde getarnter Swisscom-Mitarbeiter im Bereich Service Continuity.

                @StefanSch wrote:

                Bonus material 😉

                Yes, but that’s a bit unfair when you show individual fibers with a coat. 😉

                The 48 strand, which we installed from DSLAM, has a diameter of 5..6mm. Can you still save some volume on the route? 🤔

                But thanks for the pictures, they remind me a lot of the copper wiring harnesses tied with wax cord! 🤩

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                @andiroid

                The 48-fiber cable you mentioned is probably no longer the current fiber optic cable technology.

                For example, a current Daetwyler fiber optic cable with a diameter of 6.5 mm (including outdoor sheathing) already offers 144 fibers.

                Of course, cable technology is still constantly evolving 🙂

                What is clear in any case, even if I don’t know the exact fiber numbers, is that a new feeder cable with a total diameter of a few centimeters is currently being laid, so there are a very large amount of fibers available in it.

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                Hobby-Nerd ohne wirtschaftliche Abhängigkeiten zur Swisscom