Responsibility in-house / FTTB mCAN -> HÜP (house transfer point)?

daffy2 · Jun 16, 2023

Responsibility in-house / FTTB mCAN -> HÜP (house transfer point)?

Here in the development there is a fiber optic mCAN VT104/VT104.1 which is very visibly distributed with telephone bell wire to a house transfer point (where I am attached) - information according to [RIDA Geoportal (swisscom.ch)](https://www .swisscom.ch/rida/online/geoportal/ng/index.html)

I would like to get away from the telephone bell wire because it causes problems on the line, see below.

Who exactly is allowed to work on the bell wire? Is it Swisscom itself (CableX), is it any qualified electrician,…? Ultimately, it’s “just” a matter of pulling an alternative, shielded cable over a fairly long distance.

(Good cable has already been laid by Swisscom from the house handover point to my apartment - keyword broadband installation)

My line according to IB2:

FEC since last syncUpstream 1207396Downstream 583797

CRC since last syncUpstream 31Downstream 5

5018 · Jun 16, 2023

From the UP onwards, the homeowner is responsible. This person can commission a trusted electrician or Swisscom. Everything before the UP is a matter for Swisscom.

Based on the performance values, you can’t speak of problems. You shouldn’t notice anything, although only the CRCs are relevant and it depends on the period over which they occurred.

@Roger G can take a look at it.

daffy2 · Jun 16, 2023

Do I understand this correctly:

The bell wire “mCAN at one end in the parking garage of the development -> HUP in my part of the building” is the sole responsibility of Swisscom?

Ie. I (or the house owner/management) would have to contact Swisscom directly and convince Swisscom that Swisscom would replace the line on its own responsibility? (Better copper from mCAN to the transfer point, fiber, whatever.)

By the way, I’m not (yet) looking at the costs, just the responsibility. I’m basically considering getting qualified shielded copper as a parallel cable from the mCAN to the HUP - also for another neighbor. This should have a positive impact on the currently existing bandwidth of 140/50. My line itself works without any observable disruption behind the IB2.

5018 · Jun 16, 2023

Yes, Swisscom up to the UP, then the house owner. In terms of values, the IB2 seems to sync to the maximum on VDSL. You won’t get any more out of it. Or does it sync via g.fast? Then there would be room for improvement. You can check this in the router. But I think that it is VDSL and since you are at the limit, there are also a few errors that are at an extremely uncritical level. It’s probably a G3 mCAN like the one at home. He can’t g.fast. But they are being replaced piece by piece.

Lori-77 · Jun 16, 2023

Hello @daffy2

Do you perhaps use Powerline at home?

These things can also trigger CRC.

Greetings Lorenz

daffy2 · Jun 16, 2023

@5018 wrote:

Yes, Swisscom up to the UP, then the house owner.

Ah 😞 Then I can forget about the acceleration of upgrades because it doesn’t make economic sense for Swisscom. At best, the watering can with glass or, better, copper will come around at some point.

When it comes to the values, the IB2 seems to sync to the maximum on VDSL. You won’t get any more out of it. Or does it sync via g.fast? Then there would be room for improvement. You can check this in the router. But I think that it is VDSL and since you are at the limit, there are also a few errors that are at an extremely uncritical level.

I have VDSL2 sync on the IB2.

In the availability check, 400/90 is basically reported as feasible, so I would expect that only the bell wire (probably around 50 connections, bundled) ex mCAN attracts interference like nothing; In addition, this is a distance of 70-80 meters (across the parking hall). I have access, see where the cables covered with metal profile go through.

It’s probably a G3 mCAN like the one at home. He can’t g.fast. But they are being replaced piece by piece.

daffy2 · Jun 16, 2023

@Lori-77 wrote:

Do you perhaps use Powerline at home?

I think there is no powerline in the immediate area - with two households I can rule that out, with two it’s unlikely, and the rest of the neighborhood should be far enough from the bell wires that it doesn’t cause any problems.

Lori-77 · Jun 16, 2023

Hello @daffy2

If you want to be sure, you have to have a technician take a measurement at the UP. He then sees whether the CRC or other values are not as they should be.

As a technician, I always take a measurement on the UP so I know in which direction the fault is going.

Brige tape can also cause a problem, or an old TT83 can, etc…

If the faults are also there on the UP, Swisscom has to correct it and it won’t cost you anything…

Your connection may only be running on one wire and the technician can determine that, if that’s the case you don’t have full speed either.

Greetings Lorenz

Roger G · Jun 16, 2023

@daffy2 I took a closer look at the story. And yes, I know the buildings there very well, because the one in the last house is poor because of the cable length from the G4 mCAN (FTTB with g.Fast) 🙄

Basically the copper wire is not a problem as all other three parties in the house have around 400mbps. However, your profile was switched incorrectly - or was deliberately set to VDSL2 because there were some problems with g.Fast. But that must have been much longer than 6 mt.

I can switch you to the correct profile quickly, but if there are problems, I won’t be able to intervene again until Monday. Please let me know if it’s ok.

Best regards

PS: @5018 we do not exchange G3 FTTB.

5018 · Jun 16, 2023

@Roger G You bargain hunters 😉 Poor us customers.

Werner · Jun 16, 2023

@5018 wrote:

@Roger G You bargain hunters 😉 Poor us customers.

It’s OT now, but swapping G3 for G4 would just mean waiting a lot longer for FTTH, so as a customer I don’t want that at all.

The right path is certainly G3 -> FTTH and where it doesn’t work at all, mobile communications 🙂

daffy2 · Jun 16, 2023

@Roger G wrote:

@daffy2 I took a closer look at the story. And yes, I know the buildings there very well, because the one in the last house is poor because of the cable length from the G4 mCAN (FTTB with g.Fast) 🙄

Hi @Roger G - now my eyes are really big 🤣

Yes, you can switch without hesitation (even on Monday itself) - I still have a lifeline with Swisscom 4G+ 😉 I will definitely give feedback promptly.

For some time now there has been no bell wire from the HUP to the socket - that was the BB-something service from Swisscom.

By the way, I’m trying to keep the neighborhood away from Swisscom competition; Their cable modem breaks down every 2-3 days…

Roger G · Jun 16, 2023

@Werner wrote:

@5018 wrote:

@Roger G You bargain hunters 😉 Poor us customers.

It’s OT now, but swapping G3 for G4 would just mean waiting a lot longer for FTTH, so as a customer I don’t want that at all.

The right path is certainly G3 -> FTTH and where it doesn’t work at all, mobile communications 🙂

G3 FTTS are swapped with G5 FTTS (but we’re almost there), broken G4 also with G5. FTTB there is only G3 (vectoring) and G4 (g.fast). However, G3 have higher priority for FTTH P2P due to their low speed.

Roger G · Jun 16, 2023

@daffy2 wrote:

For some time now there has been no bell wire from the HUP to the socket - that was the BB-something service from Swisscom.

By the way, I’m trying to curb the competition from Swisscom in the neighborhood; Their cable modem breaks down every 2-3 days…

BBR Socket = BroadBandReady including the U72 from the UP to the socket. Always a good investment. Unfortunately, we cannot see in any way what is installed between the UP and the router in which apartment or house. With FTTB the indication is the line attenuation. Of course, this changes with g.Fast with the high frequencies. I’ll change it on Monday morning. I think there won’t be any problems.

Have a nice weekend everyone

Roger G · Jun 19, 2023

@daffy2 Unfortunately no success. Router only syncs on vectoring. You can reboot him to see if he wants to get involved with g.Fast. Your neighbor in the same house who also has Swisscom syncs at 350mbps. She could have 400mbps, but the BridgedTap that she still has in the apartment prevents this. If she lives on the ground floor and you live upstairs, then the line length is certainly longer for you, but then you would probably still be able to get 300 or 350 mbps.

From my point of view, the connection to the mCAN is not ideal, i.e. the BBR installation, starting with the cable from the router to the socket, socket itself, U72 to the UP, UP to the socket and before there to the mCAN. Ev. It would have been better to leave it with the old “bell wire” if everything still worked there.

If a reboot of the IB2 doesn’t help, then you have to go to the hotline and say that you are nowhere near getting the speed as stated by the checker. However, your neighbor in the same house has significantly more speed. The usual procedure will then be followed and an appointment with a technician will be made. If the technician thinks that the in-house line is simply too long, then point it out to the neighbor as well. The difference in length cannot be the cause, unless someone rolled up the U72 over 50m.

Unfortunately I can’t do more 🙄

daffy2 · Aug 9, 2023

@Roger G- Success!

First of all, sorry for the delay in answering - it was only yesterday that I was able to deal with the issue of “Internet speed” again and called the hotline.

Thanks to your preparation, I got to the real technology quite painlessly, which today completely reset the Internetbox II.

Result: g.fast, 450/100 negotiated line speed, 3(!) ms ping (wired)

Suggestion:

I also noticed in the customer portal that I could have reset the router myself from there. Although “reboot is good” is also part of my everyday IT troubleshooting routine, the prospect of resetting the router didn’t sit well with me. Text a la might have helped

The router reset causes a short interruption, but no data is lost: we save the settings as a backup and then restore them immediately.

This could help reduce support costs?

Thank you again for your efforts - and also thanks to the hotline/support for the router reset!