Apparently Swisscom is on the decline. Some P2MP connections are being converted back to P2P and the Fiber on Demand offer is now P2P.
[https://www.watson.ch/schweiz/digital/675890725-darum-baut-swisscom-privaten-bald-glasfarbenanschluesse-fuer-10-000-franken] (https://www.watson.ch/schweiz/digital/675890725-darum-baut-swisscom-privaten-bald-glasfarbenanschluesse-fuer-10-000-franken)
Swisscom usually loses its legal proceedings against the Competition Commission.
In the past, delaying a decision sometimes led to high penalties for Swisscom, but these were usually still smaller than the actual illegal profits made during the proceedings.
But this is definitely not the case with the fiber optic dispute.
It is therefore quite possible that Swisscom will now realize relatively soon that its decentralized P2MP FTTH strategy is actually legally untenable and will then very quickly return to the undisputed P2P expansion strategy.
One can at least hope for that and of course it would be great for the future of the CH fiber optic networks.
Moving forward as quickly as possible with the better and more flexible FTTH network architecture would really be good for the whole of Switzerland.
Hobby-Nerd ohne wirtschaftliche Abhängigkeiten zur Swisscom
@POGO 1104 wrote:
I hope that developed P2MP connections that are already in operation do not (have to) be dismantled.
Why not?
My fiber already ends in a central office and was previously P2P.
Not yours?
OK. Whether it makes sense, rep. every user is using the “promised” service at the same time…
#user63
@Herby wrote:
@POGO 1104 wrote:
I hope that developed P2MP connections that are already in operation do not (have to) be dismantled.
Why not?
My fiber already ends in a central station and was previously P2P.
Not yours?Ok. Whether it makes sense, rep. every user is using the “promised” service at the same time…
The legal dispute is only about the fiber on the route between the customer’s OTO socket and the Swisscom headquarters (to maintain the “monopoly-threatened” Layer 1 access for competitors, as a consequence of which can then be rented by Swisscom as an unlit fiber ).
No matter how the legal dispute ultimately turns out, neither the optical Swisscom splitters that are already centrally available in the headquarters nor the existing 10 Gig P2MP subscriptions are at risk.
The “dismantling question” or “retrofitting question” only arises with decentralized optical splitters that have already been installed in buildings or manholes, and there shouldn’t actually be that many of them yet, because that’s exactly where the ComCo is quick to issue its precautionary ruling intervened to prevent further potentially unsustainable investments by Swisscom (as they may be illegal) as quickly as possible.
Hobby-Nerd ohne wirtschaftliche Abhängigkeiten zur Swisscom
Herby wrote:
@POGO 1104 wrote:
I hope that developed P2MP connections that are already in operation do not (have to) be dismantled.
Why not?
My fiber already ends in a central station and was previously P2P.
Not yours?Ok. Whether it makes sense, rep. every user is using the “promised” service at the same time…
This is only true for areas where the municipality or city has heavily used tax resources to promote open P2P fiber optic expansion and where Swisscom, usually as a cooperation partner, has co-financed part of the expansion. However, there are now many individual properties in mostly rural areas that have been connected to FTTB. In this expansion stage, the Micro-CAN is installed directly in the building and converts the signal for the last few meters via copper to VDSL2 and/or G.fast. These CAN’s only need 2 fibers and provide 16 - 64 copper ports. For this reason, only cables with 12 - 24 fibers were usually used for connection. taken as a drop. The feeder to the central office is also not designed for FTTH P2P. Absolutely crazy, but that’s how it was done in new buildings too. Instead of immediately laying clean P2P FTTH at FTTB locations, they were carried away with a salami tactic, which is now culminating in the P2MP disaster before the ComCo. In recent years, Swisscom has successively retrofitted splitters for P2MP at these locations and regularly marketed the connections as FTTH. If you now have to factor in one fiber per residential unit with P2P in many such locations, the existing fibers are often not sufficient for development, let alone the feeder route offers corresponding capacities. Swisscom would therefore have to subsequently purchase fiber optics for a lot of money. I can’t judge whether you deliberately took in too few fibers or not.
In a few days it will be the anniversary of the installation of my OTO, which has been lying idle since then! I couldn’t activate my Anschluss at the time and other customers had to switch back to copper. Back in 2015/16, Swisscom implemented such an FTTB nonsense with VDSL2 in the bike cellar of our property. Now I can only hope that there are at least enough fibers available for a WEKO-compliant operation. What was installed there is probably not even called Micro-CAN. If no compromise can be found with the ComCo, I demand the merciless dismantling or Decommissioning of all non-COMCO-compliant expansions where P2MP is in operation, although there are too few fibers for P2P! The same rights must apply to everyone. Complete. Apparently Swisscom still operates almost 200,000 connections that are not P2P / WEKO compliant. Last year, 59,601 additional connections were built. With the help of “Swisscom colleagues” it is apparently possible to activate it underhand.
(Source: [ (
Here is a picture of the “construction botch”, which is now probably making fiber optic development impossible due to legal deficiencies:
@Herby wrote:
@POGO 1104 wrote:
I hope that developed P2MP connections that are already in operation do not (have to) be dismantled.
Why not?
My fiber already ends in a central station and was previously P2P.
Not yours?Ok. Whether it makes sense, rep. every user is using the “promised” service at the same time…
In our MFH the splitter is in the basement and the fiber was specially and laboriously re-routed there over a long distance. Much of it surface-mounted through an underground car park and cellar rooms.
From what I understand, a P2P fiber bundle is much thicker than a P2MP fiber and the P2P bundle would not fit through the same installation.
If the system were to be dismantled, the “better” option would be to replace the splitter in the basement with a g.fast MCAN.
The worse option would be back to VDSL, as this infrastructure is still active and is still used by the majority of tenants in the MFH. (OTO in the apartment is only accessible if the appropriate subscription is ordered)
….keep on rockin'
According to @millernet, “your” splitter in the basement must have been installed with more than 2 supply fibers. The few P2MP connections that are already active could certainly be converted to P2P without any problems. The others who haven’t switched to glass yet will just wait until another fiber optic cable is built.
Of course, every customer who is still waiting for the upcoming FTTH expansion would like to know to what extent they will be affected by an FTTH architecture decision.
The only thing that is clear: All of the large FTTH networks that have already been built (i.e. all large cities plus entire regions, such as the cantons of St.Gallen and Appenzell (especially the SAK networks) and many other city and regional networks were built in the Already P2P wired in the past.
For these approximately 1.5 million existing connections, the entire current legal dispute is not an issue at all, because they are already harmless from a competition point of view and are also future-proof for the next decades.
Things get more difficult in the regions that Swisscom has expanded over the last few years with the “intermediate solution” FTTS/B, because we as pure customers have no knowledge of how many fibers were actually physically pulled in by Swisscom and where.
Just as a small example, my own location:
200 meters from the town center, a settlement with around 70 residential units, connected to g.Fast with a double B-mCAN in the central underground car park for around 2 years and now even given priority for FTTH expansion because Swisscom In the meantime, he has found out that double FTTB connections are quite susceptible to disruption.
I even saw the open shafts myself when the fiber optic cables were being pulled in, and there was still a lot of space in the pipes, but how many fibers are actually there now? No idea.
For us individual customers, it is therefore impossible to estimate whether Swisscom’s return to “more fiber-intensive” P2P development at a specific location is simply a “stroke of the pen” decision to splice more existing fibers, or whether it is an additional one Thicker fiber optic cable needs to be tightened, or even new digging needs to be done.
Ultimately, every possible situation will probably exist in practice.
Hobby-Nerd ohne wirtschaftliche Abhängigkeiten zur Swisscom
4 days later
@5018 Do you actually know all the requirements of all customers? 😉
@millernet Your demands for dismantling or decommissioning P2MP are a bit daring. Next, someone comes along and demands, for reasons of solidarity, that everyone should only be allowed to have, say, 10 Mbit/s…