@eremite wrote:
Is there a way to find out whether an expansion is planned in the long term if there is no FTTS in the community and the checker does not show any expansion? There has to be a medium-term concept somewhere?
Yes, but only if the community asks directly. The data in the checker can indicate an appointment up to 15 months in advance. However, there is a lack of clarity, which is why we specify a period for the expansion. The closer the time of expansion comes, the narrower and more precise the period will be. In addition, a possible expansion year for the community will be specified upon request, as the plans for expansion technology and options for the last building do not yet exist.
Roger G.
Swisscom (Schweiz) AG, Product Manager Wireline Access
@Anonymous
Do you know when the local headquarters is in Richterswil (Yes, I’m right there? Connected to Zugerstrasse 1)
finally switched to G.Fast (I don’t even want to ask about super vectoring or glass)?
It should be 70,000 DL according to Checker, but actually only 55,000 is switched and that’s just a good 50% of what the One subscription would give (it doesn’t cost less)
Thanks
Hi
The expansion plan is essentially in place until mid-2018. You can find binding information in the checker. If it shows up, then it should happen (unless something comes up).
If, according to Checker, more is possible than what you have, then it could be due to the house cabling (top reason number 1) or the router (wrong chipset/data pump).
Supervectoring is really of no use as it is significantly slower than g.fast. Not currently planned.
Guido
I dream of just one Anschluss in every house, which all providers also finance with UPC. If you put the money together, you could achieve a lot. For us, Swisscom was faster back then and almost everyone has Swisscom and the UPC has improved all connections. And someone else has fiber optics in their house, but there the UPC was faster and almost nobody uses Swisscom. It’s a real shame, of course it will never happen like that 😄
@Bascolo wrote:
I dream of just one Anschluss in every house, which all providers also finance with UPC. If you put the money together, you could achieve a lot. For us, Swisscom was faster back then and almost everyone has Swisscom and the UPC has improved all connections. And someone else has fiber optics in their house, but there the UPC was faster and almost nobody uses Swisscom. It’s a real shame, of course it will never happen like that 😄
Baden shows how it could be, free of charge for every homeowner!
http://badenfn.ch/uber-90-prozent-der-eilens.pdf
Installationen, Netzwerk, Internet, Computertechnik, OS Windows, Apple und Linux.
@WalterB wrote:
@Bascolo wrote:
I dream of just one Anschluss in every house, which all providers also finance with UPC. If you put the money together, you could achieve a lot. For us, Swisscom was faster back then and almost everyone has Swisscom and the UPC has improved all connections. And someone else has fiber optics in their house, but there the UPC was faster and almost nobody uses Swisscom. It’s a real shame, of course it will never happen like that 😄Baden shows how it could be, free of charge for every homeowner!
http://badenfn.ch/uber-90-prozent-der-eilens.pdf
They could have continued with the neighboring villages 😄
a month later
For all those who have not yet seen the Swisscom media release:
NG.fast - Swisscom is testing innovation for the ultra-broadband network
For me it is fundamentally incomprehensible with such installations (FTTB/(N)G.fast) why FTTH is not implemented directly. On the one hand, Swisscom does not want to bear the interior construction costs for adapting the building and, on the other hand, the same game with the owner. But why does Swisscom bear the costs itself in the case of an FTTH installation?
If (N)G.fast is installed in buildings, I hope that at least these DSLAM’s are fiber ready. By this I mean that the tenant/landlord can pull a glass line to the transition point at their own expense. Wouldn’t it also be possible to remove the copper cable and replace glass directly?
Of course, it is more cost-effective to lay individual fibers from the central office to the distributor (shared from the DSLAM) instead of pulling 1-4 fibers for each apartment unit. But I think if there is any expansion work, empty pipes will be installed straight away. These can be used for FTTH at a later date. This means that part of the investment for FTTH has already been made.
This issue is not discussed enough in politics because Swisscom, as a listed company, has to satisfy its shareholders. Why is the expansion not pre-financed by the federal government as it supports the IMF with a loan of CHF 8.5 billion over 10 years? This means that investments could be implemented directly and not brought to the customer using salami tactics (FTTC/S/B/H) over the next ~ 10 years.
mabu1
I am completely with you.
I also find it very irritating that in large agglomerations, which are completely comparable to the urban area in terms of settlement structure, investments are only made in FTTS/FTTB that are not “upwardly compatible”.
Reminds me a little of the Stadelhofen train station, where 30 years ago they really wanted to save 70 million by eliminating the 4th track that was already planned at the time.
As a consequence, the much more complex retrofitting now costs over a billion CHF.
In my opinion, broadband connection has the same importance today as the much older networks for electricity and water supply.
Electricity and water started out as a private initiative a long time ago, but it only really started to work in the early 20th century when it was accepted as a state responsibility and the network investments were supported by the community.
What the private network operators are doing today is very selective, optimizes the private sector’s possible profits on a purely local basis and also leads to a lot of competition-driven duplication, which would not even occur with a shared network.
The municipalities, the cantons or the federal government can influence it politically.
From a purely economic perspective, Switzerland can certainly easily afford the most modern broadband infrastructure, but unfortunately things are not looking so good in many places with the political majorities for government investment decisions.
However, awareness of the importance of good broadband access in the future is constantly growing in many minds, so perhaps we shouldn’t lose hope yet…
Hobby-Nerd ohne wirtschaftliche Abhängigkeiten zur Swisscom
This is whining at a very high level.
No matter what comparisons and rankings you take regarding broadband coverage, Switzerland is always at the forefront in a global comparison.
Of course it is still faster, but ultimately it is a question of effort and benefit. the economics.
The Pareto principle in particular comes into play here. An 80% solution can be achieved with 20% effort; for the remaining 20% you would have to invest 80% effort.
Ultimately, no one (neither private individuals nor companies) can expect that the optimal infrastructure will always be provided. Just as with issues such as proximity to public transport connections or direct access to the motorway, it may be necessary to move to where there is a corresponding offer if there is a high bandwidth requirement.
@hed: Of course it helps the statistics enormously that there are 300% FTTH connections (which we mostly have to thank for the EWS - Swisscom was happy to participate there), and have a very high cable penetration (which is currently 500. and will soon bring several GBit).
It’s just a question of the time horizon (for the financiers: depreciation period) whether an FTTH expansion is worthwhile or not. I recently came across an article about the expansion of cable networks, which was about why certain cable operators are no longer making the move to DOCSIS 3.1 and are instead just relying on FTTH. The whole bit-by-bit expansion, with node splitting, regular HW replacement (DOCSIS 2.0, 3.0, 3.1 and then 3.1 symmetrical), but also the operating costs of the hardware that is in the field between the headquarters and the customer, that costs money.
When the NGFast expansion begins in 2022, the rest of the last mile will still be developed in civil engineering. It is certainly not cheaper to do the expansion in 2 steps instead of one. In addition, there are the costs for the mCANs and their energy requirements - none of this is free. The bottom line is that in the long term it would be smarter from a cost perspective to expand in one step. Yes, it would have tied up a lot more capital, but at least the majority shareholder should think a little longer-term.
But unfortunately in many places today it is still the case that investments that do not bring you an advantage today are the devil. And unfortunately these people have the majority in national politics.
With the salami tactic you save money in the short term compared to FTTH, and you can still achieve similar bandwidth ranges as the cablers. But the fact that people are already talking about adding glass to everything (or at least the 40% G.Fast) clearly shows that there is no way around glass.
It was said over 20 years ago that there is no way around glass.
And with every jump in speed on copper, even well-known scientists have claimed that the physical limits of this medium have now been reached. That was already the case when the modem speed was increased from 1200 bps to 9600 bps. Then 64 kbps was the end of the line, then 2 Mbps, etc.
Speeds will continue to increase with copper, glass, mobile and Wi-Fi.
Ultimately, it makes no sense to discuss whether glass or copper or wireless is the better solution and where the future lies.
The best and most economical solution lies in the sensible combination of the three media or using the most sensible medium in each case.
The right medium at the right time, in the right place…
My glass connection has been running for years without any problems and will continue to do so for decades, with ever-increasing bandwidth. I allow myself a gloating Nelson-style haha for every customer problem on copper. And they get worse with each expansion stage. Decades-old in-house copper cabling is simply not made for gigabit speeds.
It’s not surprising that Swisscom fans like Hed echo the Swisscom saying 1:1 - but I hope such people aren’t at the controls when it comes to our future. Even as a Swisscom shareholder (I invested almost 20k in shares), I allow myself to think long-term. If ideas such as cantonal FTTH expansions suddenly become commonplace, Swisscom’s patchwork network will suddenly be worth less, which will have a negative impact on the share price and dividend. From an investor perspective, a solution like mabu1 suggests would be very interesting. No additional capital commitment and cheaper in the long term. What do you think why pure fiber internet offers are cheaper? As a provider, you have fewer support cases => more profit per customer => more potential dividends. If Swisscom has to finance the entire investment itself, it’s a different story from an investor’s perspective.
But you should also have the size to take off your investor hat or fanboy hat and think long-term. But I’m probably in the wrong forum - it seems to me that the majority of my fellow citizens have lost this ability a long time ago.
You get the feeling that your suggestions are the best and everyone else is a know-it-all and totally wrong with their technique.
The technicians and developers certainly thought something through when they partly switched to the fiber optic / copper variant.
In Baden, free fiber optics were pulled into the apartment in the city and the surrounding area with the easiest way through the electrical installation, but now there were some problems because some of the old electrical installations were still there with lead pipes and old cables and some of the electrical installations had to be replaced because the old installation was destroyed by the fiber optic insertion.
Now there are discussions about who will pay for the repairs, so the easiest way is not always the best and completely re-routing the fiber optic cables in the apartments can result in very high costs.
The fiber optic/copper variant was also used in my Swisscom area and 50m away from me, users get good performance with around 300-400 Mbit/s. So the system isn’t totally wrong.
Installationen, Netzwerk, Internet, Computertechnik, OS Windows, Apple und Linux.
Yes, then let’s get the politicians to create the appropriate legal basis.
For example, homeowners must install FTTH for each apartment from the plot boundary at their own expense as soon as a telco requests this.
You can imagine what kind of uproar that would cause. Also from the tenants, who are likely to cover these costs indirectly. Technically it would be the ideal solution.
As long as copper delivers sufficient or comparable performance at lower costs, nationwide FTTH expansion remains illusory.
Yes, I also have the problem with the lead pipes in my apartment. There simply isn’t enough space for additional cables. With great difficulty I was able to replace the old TN-C with contemporary TN-S wiring with higher conductor cross-sections. Nevertheless, the installation obviously does not comply with current regulations in all aspects. But you can’t replace the pipes without tearing up walls and ceilings.
One way would be to completely replace copper (telephone) with glass. However, this would also require cooperation between the telcos. Otherwise there would be the same resistance as with the vectoring issue in Germany.
This is whining at a very high level.
No matter what comparisons and rankings you take regarding broadband coverage, Switzerland is always at the forefront in a global comparison.
Of course it is still faster, but ultimately it is a question of effort and benefit. of economic efficiency.
In my opinion, this is not whining on a high level. Swisscom advertises its portfolio directly with fiber optic (technology) and misses no opportunity to compare 1Gbit Internet offerings with the competition.
No matter where Switzerland ranks in a ranking regarding broadband coverage, the focus must and may only be directed to one side - forward. Compare yourself with better people in order to become better and not the other way around. What I often notice in this forum is that Swisscom’s comparison per person voted is reversed. Give the disappointed person an example with less bandwidth and you should consider yourself lucky with xyz Mbit.
The Pareto principle plays a particularly important role here. An 80% solution can be achieved with 20% effort, for the remaining 20% you would have to invest 80% effort.
The principle is well known, unfortunately Swisscom itself has set a goal of 90% ultra-broadband access with at least 90 Mbit by the end of 2021 (85% with 100 Mbit). With this justification, with the same resources, an expansion with 100% fiber optic would take at least 4 times the construction time since the start (2008?). In Switzerland the expansion has not yet reached 80%, which can be managed with the 20% effort. I would like to see @hed in 40 years, as soon as it too is opened up with fiber optics and no longer has to be held up with empty phrases.
Ultimately, no one (neither private individuals nor companies) can expect that the optimal infrastructure will always be provided. Just as with issues such as proximity to public transport connections or direct access to the motorway, it may be necessary to move to where there is a corresponding offer if there is a high bandwidth requirement.
Accordingly, an investment in a fiber optic network would be analogous to the initiative of Glasfibro Zuerich
necessary at national level.
It was said over 20 years ago that there is no way around glass.
If the focus had been on fiber optics 20 years ago, we wouldn’t have to develop, buy and install these error-prone and sophisticated technologies like (N)G.fast today.
_And with every jump in speed on copper, even well-known scientists have claimed that the physical limits of this medium have now been reached. That was already the case when the modem speed was increased from 1200 bps to 9600 bps. Then 64 kbps was the end of the line, then 2 Mbps, etc.
_
Speeds will continue to increase, with copper, glass, mobile and Wi-Fi.
Hopefully the speeds will increase, we agree on that for once. But is it really necessary to make investments at all levels? The providers have already confirmed unisolo that there is no way around fiber optics in the future. Nevertheless, technologies like NG.fast are developed in cooperation. This is completely incomprehensible to me because the benefit is not available for me:
In 2016 Swisscom’s expansion with fiber optic technology was promised, somehow carried out in 2017. The Anschluss should have speeds of up to 100Mbit. After nothing happened, I was informed by @Anonymous that there was a problem with my apartment unit. That’s why neither vectoring nor a higher speed can be switched. Further clarifications by Swisscom’s network construction came to nothing and I heard nothing more.
Now the apartment is available for Swisscom in the statistics with up to 100 Mbit, the checker gives 70 Mbit and in reality I still have 55 Mbit.
Should G.fast come along, same game with (500/300/100).
Ultimately, it is pointless to discuss whether glass or copper or wireless is the better solution and where the future lies.
It is nonsense to claim that it is nonsense to discuss it.
_The best and most economical solution lies in the sensible combination of the three media or using the most sensible medium in each case.
_
The right medium at the right time, in the right place…
It is rarely the case that the best and most economical solution in the short term coincides. Hence the proposal for subsidies or loans from the federal government.