Internet reception in boathouse

Avvocado62 · Feb 13, 2023

Internet reception in boathouse

In a boathouse on Lake Nussbaumer we have very poor internet reception.
No internet or fiber optic connection, just electricity. We run a digital catch book (web application) on an iPad 2. The data transfer is very low.
Even with an iPhone 13, reception is very inconsistent.

How can reception or network coverage be improved there?

Is LoRaWAN an option?

position

CH1903+ / LV95 2′704′140.0, 1′274′736.2

CH1903 / LV03 704′139.02, 274′736.56

WGS 84 (lat/lon) 47.61503, 8.82382

            47°36'54.109″N 8°49'25.748″E

UTM 486,760, 5,273,529 (zone 32T)

MGRS 32TMT 86760 73529

user109 · Feb 13, 2023

Avvocado62 maybe only Starlink can help: [https://www.comparis.ch/telecom/zuhause/internet-tv-festnetz-abo/starlink-schweiz](https://www.comparis.ch/ telecom/home/internet-tv-landline-subscription/starlink-switzerland)

LoRaWAN is only for very small amounts of data in Kbit range for controls and measured values.

How fast is LoRaWAN?

With LoRa, this data rate is only approx. 0.02 kBit/s and is therefore unusable for many applications. However, if such low data rates can be used, theoretically 4 times the radio range is possible compared to modern FSK transceivers.

https://www.heise.de/select/ct/2019/10/1556885435919868

[LoRaWAN network Switzerland](https://akenza.io/features/connectivity-as-a-service/swisscom-lpn-de?utm_term=lorawan%20schweiz&utm_ca mpaign=Swisscom+CaaS+-+CHDE&utm_source=adwords&utm_medium=ppc&hsa_acc=7184580909&hsa_cam=19600533265&hsa_grp=145 014743989&hsa_ad=645547721974&hsa_src=g&hsa_tgt=kwd-1241213943722&hsa_kw=lorawan%20schweiz&hsa_mt=p&hsa_net=adwo rds&hsa_ver=3&gclid=CjwKCAiA3KefBhByEiwAi2LDHD10O2_v4uAYdZxBI4jCDLjsXihKIx09VzCfROSBXnvBFtKnHl14ChoCXMEQAvD_BwE)

Antenna locations Switzerland

Distance and height profile from the transmission mast to the boathouse.

hed · Feb 13, 2023

@Avvocado62

At best something like this helps:

Cellular repeater | Mobile phone network amplifier | Improve mobile reception (fts-hennig.de)

However, I would only undertake such an experiment if you have a right of return for cash.

Samsi · Feb 13, 2023

@Avvocado62

Have you ever tried another provider? Maybe the Salt or Sunrise location offers better reception or a significantly faster data connection.

PeterA1 · Feb 13, 2023

The antenna mast on the northern edge of Hüttwilen must be a Sunrise antenna because GSM is still visible.

If the antenna mast on the southern edge of Hüttwilen is from Swisscom, then that would be less optimal because there is no direct line of sight.

But is the reception really that bad, even outside the boathouse?

NilsL · Feb 13, 2023

It may be worth trying other providers; in certain cases, Swisscom has a poorer or overloaded network

You can have a SIM completely free of charge with Salt and Sunrise

Salt: Simply order a prepaid SIM, it costs nothing and you get 10 Fr. credit which you can convert into internet for 2 Fr. a day (like Swisscom Prepaid). If Salt is good and you want a permanent solution, GoMo is the best option for this application, costs 10 Fr. per month for unlimited data (throttling to 0.5 Mbit/s after 100 GB)

Sunrise: Order a free SIM on digital republic including one month of unlimited data (300 Mbit/s). If things go well, get the Digital rebublic subscription for 10 Fr. a month (limited to 10 Down 5 Up, should be enough)

Avvocado62 · Feb 15, 2023

Thank you very much for your tips.
I would like to try this with sunrise and/or salt,

NilsL · Feb 15, 2023

@Avvocado62 Please mark another solution so that the issue is seen as solved for the time being

GrandDixence · Mar 6, 2023

As you can easily see with the 3D function of https://map.geo.admin.ch (thanks to tax money), there is only 60 meters east of the boathouse Eastern edge of the Nussbommersee very likely line of sight to the mobile phone antenna on the western edge of the town of Hüttwilen and probably also line of sight to the mobile phone antenna on the Wolfersbärg.

[https://www.swisstopo.admin.ch/de/karten-daten-online/karten-geodaten-online/3d-viewer.html](https://www.swisstopo.admin.ch/de/karten- daten-online/karten-geodaten-online/3d-viewer.html)

Field behind boathouse at Nussbommersee 2.png

If you use a SIM card from a mobile phone provider that operates one of the two mobile phone antennas mentioned, you can expect perfect mobile phone reception at this location.

Things look different because of the “forest attenuation” at the location of the boathouse. See:

[https://funkperlen.blogspot.com/2017/11/wenn-baume-den-wellen-im-wege-esten.html](https://funkperlen.blogspot.com/2017/11/wenn-baume- standing in the way of the waves.html)

[https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichweit\_(radio technology)](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichweit_(radio technology))

and the very similar case “Camping Lenk BE”:

[https://community.sunrise.ch/d/26711-feedback-zur-netzcover-at-a-specific-location](https://community.sunrise.ch/d/26711-feedback-zur-netzcover- at-a-specific-location)

Caution: Numerous mobile phone antennas in the Hüttwilen TG region are listed on the Bakom radio transmitter map with a transmission power of “very small” and are therefore probably only in-house antennas!

Roger G · Mar 7, 2023

You forget the orientation of the antennas. Just visual contact doesn’t mean anything!

GrandDixence · Mar 7, 2023

I’ve already seen in Scotland that the heroes from the mobile phone provider have aimed a sector antenna directly at a forest behind it (distance < 10 meters). The sector antenna cannot protrude above the tops of the fir trees. This sector antenna can be dismantled because it simply heats the forest.

In Switzerland, mobile phone planning is carried out by a sufficient number of qualified staff. I can assume that the sector antennas are properly aligned. Experience has shown that line of sight is sufficient in Switzerland. If you would like to find out the exact alignment of the Swisscom mobile phone antenna, read on here:

[https://community.swisscom.ch/t5/Mobile/Connectionabbr%C3%BCche-bei-Rastst%C3%A4tte-Rheintal/m-p/665111#M9022] (https://community.swisscom.ch/t5/Mobile/Connectionabbr%C3%BCche-bei-Rastst%C3%A4tte-Rheintal/m-p/665111#M9022)

For Huttwilen TG the address:

Steineggerstrasse 3.1 8536 Hüttwilen

Enter “electrical field strengths” in the Swisscom card.

[https://www.swisscom.ch/de/about/netz/mobilfunk-antennen-umwelt-gesundheit/feldstaerke.html](https://www.swisscom.ch/de/about/netz/mobilfunk-antennen- environment-health/feldstaerke.html)

For Wolfersbärg the address can be:

Schellenbergstrasse 7 8535 Herdern

be used.

AbRah-SH · Mar 7, 2023

The Swisscom antenna in the south of Hüttwilen is a Band20-only antenna.

I explained why this is bad news here: [https://community.swisscom.ch/t5/Internet-general/Mobiles-Internet-langsam/m-p/753043#M68179](https://community.swisscom.ch /t5/Internet-general/Mobile-Internet-slow/m-p/753043#M68179)

The antenna in the west of Hüttwilen belongs to Sunrise, which is on the Wolfersbärg Salt.

The next “capable” Swisscom antenna is in Stammheim, which has LTE bands 1, 3, 20 and 28. Sunrise and Salt also come from there.

GrandDixence · Mar 7, 2023

Band 20 is for basic Swiss coverage with 4G/LTE mobile communications. And for basic service, 2×10 MHz bandwidth is completely sufficient.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobilfunkfrequencies_in_der_Switzerland

According to the Bakom radio transmitter card, the antenna on the Wolfersbärg has a “large” 3G/UMTS transmission power. This means that more than one mobile phone provider is present on this antenna mast. Don’t be alarmed if you find three cell phone-like wreaths during a site visit to Wolfersbärg, Wolfersbärg is a typical high-altitude location that is often used for Polycom. And according to the Bakom radio transmitter card, there is a radio link to the Wolfersbärg…

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polycom_(Switzerland)

AbRah-SH · Mar 7, 2023

Without visual contact and at greater distances, the signal suffers significant losses. It will be enough for telephony via VoLTE (12 - 24 kbps). But I don’t know how much bandwidth the thread creator needs.

I suspect that the available bandwidth in the boat is in the single-digit Mbit range.

I know of a few locations in my region (especially from Salt) where the UMTS transmission power on the BAKOM card is “large”, but really only Salt comes from the antenna. There is also only one panel hanging in each direction.

GrandDixence · Mar 7, 2023

I keep hearing the statement that the canton of Thurgau is poorly served by Swisscom with mobile communications. The example of “Nussbommersee” seems to confirm this statement once again. Especially in the canton of Thurgau, you shouldn’t travel without a dual-SIM capable mobile phone. See:

[https://community.swisscom.ch/t5/Mobile/2G-Abschaltung-2020-neue-weisse-Flecken-kein-Empfang/m-p/617825#M7418] (https://community.swisscom.ch/t5/Mobile/2G-Abschaltung-2020-neue-weisse-Flecken-kein-Empfang/m-p/617825#M7418)

Does this iPhone 13 not support a second SIM card (eSIM or Nano SIM)?!

https://www.gsmarena.com/apple_iphone_13-11103.php

A cheap prepaid SIM card (from Sunrise) with a cheap data package should be enough for this “fishing book” application. You may have to move a few meters east to record your latest catch.

Avvocado62 · Mar 8, 2023

Thanks for your inputs.
I once used a free SIM from Salt and actually had better reception than with Swisscom.
Based on your reports, I guess I’ll have to wait until the leaves sprout. It is actually the case that there is reception 50 east and on the lake itself too. I hope that Salt’s signal is strong enough to penetrate the grove even in summer.

Greetings from Eastern Switzerland!

NilsL · Mar 8, 2023

@Avvocado62 Often the solution can be so simple

For certain mobile phone problems, this is my number 1 solution suggestion: simply try a different provider, especially because it doesn’t cost anything to test

Hopefully it stays good in the summer too