Yesterday I was in the city of Bern and was able to receive 5G SA in many places, for example at the Federal Palace or at the train station.
However, 5G SA is not yet activated on all base stations. In some places reception is completely lost.
Now it would be interesting to know whether you can book into it. (I don’t assume so).
I don’t have a Swisscom SIM and therefore can’t test it.
Sorry for digging up this post.
Do I understand you correctly that you think it is possible that there could be a three-way cascade with MVNO vs. Swisscom? So MVNO without 5G option = 4G, MVNO with 5G option = NR_NSA and only Swisscom itself = NR_SA? 🤔
I think it’s a bit over the top in terms of the surcharge that you already pay for 5G with Wingo, for example. But that was already addressed in a later post.
@KindKronos wrote:
Do I understand you correctly that you think it is possible that there could be a three-way cascade with MVNO vs. Swisscom? So MVNO without 5G option = 4G, MVNO with 5G option = NR_NSA and only Swisscom itself = NR_SA? 🤔
Apart from any contractual clauses in the contracts between MVNO <-> mobile network operator, the operation of a core network is the sole responsibility of the MVNO.
- If the MVNO operates a 4G/LTE core network (EPC) that is not “5G NSA” compatible, 5G NSA is not possible via the “rented” 5G-capable mobile phone antennas.
- If the MVNO operates a 4G/LTE core network (EPC) that is “5G NSA” compatible, 5G NSA is possible via the “rented” 5G-capable mobile phone antennas.
- If the MVNO operates a 5G core network (5G CN), it can offer its end customers “5G standalone” (5G SA) via the “rented” 5G-capable mobile antennas.
The same also applies to voice telephony via the 4G/LTE mobile network (VoLTE => Voice over LTE):
- If the MVNO operates a VoLTE-capable core network, it can offer VoLTE to end customers. Otherwise there is no VoLTE.
There are costs incurred for operating and expanding the core network. MVNOs usually operate as cost-effective mobile phone providers and are happy to save on all expansions to the core network that are not absolutely necessary. So no expansion or update to support 5G NSA. No expansion or update for VoLTE support. And no new construction and parallel operation of a 5G core network alongside a 4G core network. Without a 5G core network, there is no 5G SA.
Thank you for your comments!
For example, with Wingo I (now) also have Visual Voicemail, VoLTE has always worked (it used to be different with other MVNOs), eSIM as well and I have activated the (free) option for 5G. That’s why I wondered if there could be another distinction regarding the NSA/SA distinction. But that seems to depend on the conditions of the core network, thank you for that!
To operate a 5G core network, the MVNO must set up some new computer cabinets with some new servers in two data centers that are as far away as possible (geo-redundancy).
https://www.datacenter-insider.de/was-ist-georedundanz-a-894461/
A good overview of the structure of a 4G/LTE mobile network is provided by:
[https://fosdem.org/2024/events/attachments/fosdem-2024-3062-i-want-my-own-cellular-network-having-fun-with-lte-networks-and-open5gs-/slides/ 22392/I_want_my_own_cellular_network_v3_dMwus3j. pdf](https://fosdem.org/2024/events/attachments/fosdem-2024-3062-i-want-my-own-cellular-network-having-fun-with-lte-networks-and-open5gs-/ slides/22392/I_want_my_own_cellular_network_v3_dMwus3j.pdf)
[https://csrc.nist.gov/CSRC/media/Presentations/LTE-Security-How-Good-is-it/images-media/day2\_research\_200-250.pdf](https://csrc. nist.gov/CSRC/media/Presentations/LTE-Security-How-Good-is-it/images-media/day2_research_200-250.pdf)
https://open5gs.org/open5gs/assets/images/Open5GS_CUPS-01.pdf
And if you want to set up your own, cost-effective mobile network, you should read more here:
Is Wingo technically really an MVNO? I don’t know, but I highly doubt it.
Can you put the following here to find out whether Wingo is a real MVNO with its own infrastructure or runs on the normal Swisscom infrastructure:
e.g. Mucho Mobile in the Swisscom network is technically a real MVNO:
True, I used the term without really questioning it.
ASN is AS3303, IMSI starts with 22801, APN is gprs.swisscom.ch and *130*125# gives me my correct phone number.
That would mean that the rollout for me should probably take place just as quickly as with a Swisscom 5G subscription?
Are you interested in anything else about my technical data?
If the IMSI from the Wingo SIM card has the same country code (MCC) and network operator code (MNC) as a Swisscom SIM card, it means that the Wingo SIM cards are in the same subscriber/user database (HLS/HLR) how the Swisscom SIM cards are registered.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Mobile_Subscriber_Identity
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_Subscriber_Server
This means that Wingo and Swisscom end customers use exactly the same core network. The only notable difference apart from the price tag is probably different (customer) profiles for the prioritization and data transfer rate limits. See:
[https://community.swisscom.ch/t5/Mobile/Swisscom-reduced-in-peak-times-the-5G-bandwidth-at-Wingo/m-p/808008] (https://community.swisscom.ch/t5/Mobile/Swisscom-reduced-in-peak times-die-5G-bandbreite-bei-Wingo/m-p/808008)
@KindKronos wrote:
That would mean that the rollout for me should probably take place just as quickly as with a Swisscom 5G subscription?
No, for marketing reasons, the SIM cards of Wingo end customers are entered in the subscriber database of the 5G core network (HSS) much later than the SIM cards of Swisscom end customers. Only when the SIM card is entered in the subscriber database of the 5G core network can 5G standalone (SA) be used with this SIM card! Today this SIM card is registered in the subscriber database of the 4G core network.
A SIM card that is not entered in the subscriber database of the core network (HSS/HLR) cannot log into this core network. The only and important exception: emergency calls (Europe: 112 / North America: 911) can also be made without a SIM card or with a missing entry in the subscriber database.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notruf#Sprachnotruf_per_telefon
For the “technical marketing reasons” see the last paragraph of article no. 50.
The following provides an overview of exactly what data is held for each individual SIM card in the subscriber database of the 4G and 5G core network:
https://librecellular.org/user/subscribers#ue-database-configuration
The most important content of the participant database (HSS/HLR) is the symmetrical key material (Master key => K or Ki). See these sets of slides:
[https://csrc.nist.gov/CSRC/media/Presentations/LTE-Security-How-Good-is-it/images-media/day2\_research\_200-250.pdf](https://csrc. nist.gov/CSRC/media/Presentations/LTE-Security-How-Good-is-it/images-media/day2_research_200-250.pdf)
http://rvs.unibe.ch/teaching/ss16_seminar/20160509_ShrimalAnukriti.pdf
Thank you both for your very informative answers!
@GrandDixence: Does the statement regarding the marketing argument apply despite the surcharge for 5G? Or is the surcharge simply “too small”?
And to address the article linked to the top of your post and also the arguments below (regarding the alleged throttling): I think that’s quite justified from a price/performance perspective, but you could write it down a little more prominently, even if it’s not sexy… 😉
5G standalone has nothing to do with objections. 5G SA does not require any structural changes to 5G base stations. 5G SA is purely a software matter at the base stations.
OT: According to Sunrise’s CTO, 5G SA will be activated for customers at Sunrise sometime next year. Geschäftskunden will be able to use it via network slicing in the near future (or already today?).
Sunrise reports that it has now activated 5G SA throughout Switzerland, and I quote:
mobile technology
The Sunrise mobile network is “5G Standalone” capable
Sunrise is preparing for the future and is the first provider in Switzerland to introduce “5G Standalone” (5G SA) in its mobile network.
5G Standalone is a further development of the previous 5G and is being rolled out across the entire Sunrise 5G network.
Sunrise customers will be able to use 5G Standalone in the course of the year, subject to certification by the device manufacturers and the provision of a firmware update.
5G Standalone will offer residential customers benefits such as improved network coverage, longer battery life, real-time responsiveness and increased connection security.
For business customers, the focus is on new solutions with dedicated faster and more reliable connections, massive IoT connectivity capacities, slicing solutions and lower energy consumption.
