The “optimizers” could sometimes cause really massive problems ([Bakom link](https://www.bakom.admin.ch/bakom/de/home/das-bakom/medieninformationen/bakom-infomailing/bakom-infomailing-43/ photovoltaic-systems-avoidance-of-possible-disturbances-at-radio-frequencies.html)) and hypothetically also interfere with Ethernet if the Ethernet cable is close to the supply line.
Can you perhaps notice a pattern that the disturbances only occur during the day? Because the optimizers should probably be without power at night.
I couldn’t determine it and had completely disconnected the system from the network. But that was still the case with Internetbox 2, where the malfunction lasts longer and you could always hear a relay switching every second. With the Gen 4 it was always very fast, there were no long interruptions and the router was defective.
@Kessirio24
The optimizers continue to work even if the system is disconnected from the network. They get their electricity directly from the solar modules. At least during the day.
The interference would then be capacitively coupled in from the DC line.
But speculating doesn’t help much; you have to measure it. If you live nearby, I could do that (Kt. TI).
Or you can make a non-binding inquiry to OFCOM. Or perhaps at an amateur radio club nearby.
Electricity providers can also measure power quality (interference from the network), but this is sometimes not free.
Hello everyone
I’m at Wingo and have the exact same problem. After replacing the router for the fourth time, I noticed that the router could be reset despite the blue LED: simply switch it off once and then press the reset hole when switching it on. After a few blinks it then starts again (with factory settings of course).
This was also reported to support and they forwarded it for analysis.
Since then (approx. 6 months) I have not received any meaningful feedback other than that the analysis is still in progress. Unfortunately the blue LED comes back every 1-2 weeks…
And to take the wind out of the sails of the photovoltaics/optimizer thesis: I don’t have any of it in my building…
Unfortunately, I’m at my wits’ end and have been thinking about setting up a compatible router from a third-party manufacturer
At least in my apartment there is no powerline. (Of course I can’t speak for the other apartments)
But as you already wrote, I would find an influence on fiber optics strange…
What’s also amazing is that at first it worked without any problems for about a year. Now, since the beginning of the year, the blue LED has been appearing regularly. This occurred without any changes to my network and, as far as I could tell, not to the building either.
Due to the multiple changes, I already had the IB3 and the IB4 in operation. Same phenomenon for both…
At the beginning the problem often occurred at some point at night because everything was ok in the evening and then the blue LED in the morning. That’s why I suspected that there was a firmware update that didn’t go through and the IB then malfunctioned. But the Wingo support said that there were no updates at all…
Now the error appears to occur randomly at any time of the day or night.
I was also wondering whether there might be interference signals somehow in the LAN that could “shoot back” to the IB. That’s why I connected all the devices to a Netgear GS105 switch, so that only the fiber optics and the switch are directly attached to the IB. Unfortunately also without success
7 days later
The same router works perfectly for me. 2 connector strips for around 8 connections.
I once had something similar but with an accounting computer. Someone put the coffee maker on the same plug. That was too much. We noticed that the electrical installation was too weak. Wiring completely replaced and higher amp fuses. Old building about 50 years old.
9 days later
With an SDR, an interference signal transmitted via radio can be easily examined. A laptop, radio spectrum analyzer software, a USB OTG cable, a simple LTE antenna and an RTL-SDR are enough to hunt for radio signals or interference signals. Cost: < 100 CHF (without laptop). Detailed information:
[https://www.bsdforen.de/threads/rtl-sdr-zugriff-nur-f%C3%BCr-root.36497/#post-331483](https://www.bsdforen.de/threads/rtl -sdr-access-only-f%C3%BCr-root.36497/#post-331483)
I use the free software “SDR Console” as radio spectrum analyzer software on my laptop Windows 10.
An Android smartphone with the “RF Analyzer” app from Dennis Mantz offers a portable solution. Unfortunately, this app has been removed from the Google Play Store. This app is still available in F-Droid. To operate an RTL-SDR on an Android smartphone, the “SDR driver” app from “Signalware Ltd” from the Google Play Store (or F-Droid) must first be installed. As an alternative to the free Android app “RF Analyzer”, the paid Android app SDR-Touch from “Signalware Ltd” can be used. SDR-Touch is also a radio spectrum analyzer app.
https://f-droid.org/de/packages/com.mantz_it.rfanalyzer/
[https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=marto.rtl\_tcp\_andro&hl=de](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=marto. rtl_tcp_andro&hl=de)
https://f-droid.org/de/packages/marto.rtl_tcp_andro/
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=marto.androsdr2
I seriously doubt that the inverter of the photovoltaic system feeds serious interference signals into the low-voltage network. These inverters must meet strict EMC standards, including meeting harmonic harmonic requirements. See:
https://energie.ch/harmonische-oberdrehungen-netzqualitaet/
A proper inverter in a photovoltaic system has an intermediate circuit:
https://www.mvv.de/photovoltaik/photovoltaikanlage/wechselrichter
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zwischenkreis
Such an inverter works similarly to a primary-switched switching power supply.
[https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switching power supply](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switching power supply)
If these inverters did not meet the applicable EMC standards in the low-voltage network, the electricity companies would (hopefully) banish or disconnect these participants from the network fairly quickly. I consider interference signals (and also overvoltages) transmitted via the power cable to be unlikely.
If you bring the signal curve of the mains voltage into the PC somehow (with galvanic isolation) (e.g. via a sound card, analog-to-digital converter or SDR with upconverter), the FFT can be implemented very easily with the Python module Matplotlib and displayed on the screen. There’s no need for Matlab, Octave, whatever…
https://www.mdpi.com/2079-9292/5/4/64#
https://matplotlib.org/stable/gallery/lines_bars_and_markers/spectrum_demo.html
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matplotlib
The radio interference signals emitted by photovoltaic systems are handled less strictly. In other words, the interference signals transmitted via “air” in the form of radio signals. See the OFCOM information brochure:
[https://www.bakom.admin.ch/dam/bakom/de/documents/bakom/frequencies\_und\_antennen/Elektromagnetische%20Vertr%C3%A4glichkeit%20&%20Umwelt/Elektromagnetisc he%20Waves/St%C3%Disruptions%20of%20radio services%20through%20photovoltaic systems.pdf.download.pdf/Disturbances_of_radio services_through_photovoltaic systems.p df](https://www.bakom.admin.ch/dam/bakom/de/documents/bakom/frequencies_und_antennen/Elektromagnetische%20Vertr%C3%A4glichkeit%20&%20Umwelt/Elektromagnetis che%20Waves/St%C3%B6rungen%20von%20Funkdienste%20durch%20Photovoltaikanlagen.pdf.download.pdf/Stoerungen_von_funkdiensten_durch_Photovoltaikanlagen.pdf)
These radio interference signals can be coupled into nearby electrical (unshielded) cables.
Only consistent shielding of all network and telephone cables can help against such radio interference.
Make sure that shield support on both sides is used everywhere (see link above, page 9 below). Placing an HF-permeable capacitor on one side helps prevent ground loops, also known as ground loops or hum loops.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erdschleife
On the subject of “overvoltage” and interference signals in the network cable (LAN), see also:
[https://community.sunrise.ch/d/37828-care-modem-bei-gewiter-gabe-voltage-an-lan-ports-weiter/3](https://community.sunrise.ch/d/ 37828-attention-modem-in-the-storm-gives-voltage-to-lan-ports-on/3)
Electrical devices are usually sufficiently protected from interference signals transmitted via the power cable with X and Y capacitors in the power supply or in the line filter. See:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entst%C3%B6rkondensator
Electrical devices are usually protected from overvoltage from the power cable with varistors.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varistor
In the event of a lightning strike, the varistor that has “burnt out” due to overvoltage can be unsoldered, replaced with a new, intact varistor, soldered in and the device runs again.
Suppressor diodes are often used to protect signal lines from overvoltage:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suppressordiode
10 days later
I’ve had exactly the same problem since the beginning of April. I got a new Internet Box 4 three times and now I’ve had an Inrernet Box 3 for about 3 months. I have the problem every 1 to 2 weeks and the only thing that helps is the following:
Unplug everything except the power supply and fiber optics, switch off the router, wait 1 minute, switch on the router, wait until the white LED appears, immediately press the reset button for 10 seconds.
A Wingo technician also told me the trick after I had been using it for several months. Unfortunately no other solution. I assume that Wingo can’t handle your router firmware. I previously had Swisscom with the same router and no problems.
4 days later
@Hugientau54
I’ve been living with this exact “trick” for almost ¾ years. Unfortunately, the problem now occurs twice a week.
I’ve now tried everything possible to change without restricting functionality:
- Tried various sockets, including those with different fuses, with and without multiple sockets
- Replaced all cables one by one: power supply, ethernet cable, fiber optic
- Network devices connected or disconnected
Unfortunately all to no avail, the problem remains. A Cablex technician was there to check the Anschluss. Apparently it was completely normal.
I have now received the 4th or 5th router because support doesn’t seem to believe it…
I have now come to the conclusion that the problem must be with the router, as this is the only “constant”. But not in the explicit model, but rather in the firmware or an update cycle that doesn’t go through. But of course I lack the necessary deep insight into the matter.
I lack the equipment and knowledge for a radio spectrum analysis. It would take forever and cost a lot for me to get to grips with everything. Would it perhaps be possible to turn off the WiFi and then observe?
But that would of course be a significant limitation in functionality…
I’ve also thought about buying a Fritzbox and attaching it to it and see if there are any problems. Simply to have a different “firmware” as a comparison. But of course that would also be expensive fun at my expense if the problem wasn’t in my installation but in the router.
Has no one else found a better solution than constant resetting?
Do you have a Pi-hole installed?
I have the same problem, the router is “broken” every 1-2 weeks. After the factory reset, the part works again without any problems. I had the problem with the Internet Box 3 and now the same problem with the Internet Box 4…
My network is quite complex, definitely not “standard”.
- Wingo customer
- IB3 and IB4
- XGS-PON 100 Mbits/s
- Dyndns
- 4 port forwardings
- 8 Lan switches,
- 25 WiFi clients
- 10 Lan clients
Since this Monday, September 16, 2024, I’ve been testing how long the router will last without a Pi-Hole.
It’s totally illogical to me how a client can kill a router, but when I trace the failures it starts right where I installed the Pi-Hole.
I am also a long-time user of Pi-hole on a Raspi, and why a software-based DNS sink could have any influence on a router is an absolute mystery to me.
If you don’t use the router’s IP address in the Pi-hole’s upstream DNS, but rather external DNS servers directly, the router won’t even notice that the Pi-hole is active, and if the router is actually activated by Pi-hole as Upstream DNS server should be called, the Pi-hole appliance is nothing more than a normal LAN client.
Hobby-Nerd ohne wirtschaftliche Abhängigkeiten zur Swisscom
Yes, I use a PiHole. But I had the problem of the crash before. I first set up the PiHole in an attempt to relieve some of the work from the Internet box. It also only does DNS, DHCP is turned off. Therefore, no conflicts should arise.
Otherwise, my network looks pretty similar to yours, just not quite as many switches and clients.
As an experiment, I have now switched off the PiHole. I’ll see in three days at the latest whether it was of any use 🙄
I find it exciting that Wingo support acts as if they had never heard of the problem with every call. There are already a few people gathering here in the thread…
My case has apparently now been escalated to Swisscom. But I haven’t heard anything for a week…
Today I noticed the following:
Before I did a reset, I turned the IB off with the switch at the back and turned it on again. It then flashes a little blue/red until everything lights up white. However, only the 2.4Ghz network is visible under the WiFi, the SSID of the 5Ghz network is nowhere to be found. And then after about a minute the LED is blue again. Could it be a problem with the 5Ghz WiFi?
It doesn’t sound logical to me when things are going well for 99% of customers. I’m now clutching at straws. And without logs, troubleshooting is almost impossible 🙄